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Towards Emotional Health,

 

Views From The Front Line.

 

 

Proceedings of the Fifth Annual conference

 

of the

 

The James Nayler Foundation

York, March 2003

Published by the James Nayler Foundation

 

all proceeds from sales of this book will go to the James Nayler Foundation

 

 

 

 

 

Preface

 

We were delighted to welcome about 250 participants to our Fifth Annual Conference, held for the second time in York, in the beautiful surroundings of the Central Methodist Church.

 

With this publication, we now have five complete proceedings of our annual conferences.   These form an increasingly useful and vital record of innovative development in this area.  They add to the our record not only of the thinking of key experts from the UK, but also the thoughts and experiences of those who have suffered from Personality Disorders.

 

We are grateful to all who participated, thus helping the positive development of the foundation.

 

 

Sue Johnson

 

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Contents

Contents.............................................................................. 1

Sue Johnson: Welcome to the Conference  & The Foundation       1

Dr. Elie Godsi: Current and Future Practice               3

Definitions from Dr Godsi’s slides – the text                5

Dr Rex Haigh The Role & value of Therapeutic Communities        8

Personal Perspectives........................................... 12

View from Broadmoor: Carole Bressington          12

Introduction to Karl by Bob Johnson 13

Nada Dobre................................................... 13

Bob Johnson:................................................ 14

Dr Bob Johnson ‘issues in Personality Disorder       15

Questions for the Panel...................................... 19

Appendix......................................................................... 25

An Inmate speaks about Personality Disorder.           25

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sue Johnson: Welcome to the Conference  & The Foundation

 

Good morning! It’s good to see so many people here today. We have a really rich mixture of people here today from probation, from social services, from psychiatry, psychology, families, friends and from people with direct personal experience of what Personality Disorder really means. I hope you will all take the opportunity of sharing experiences with one another and I look forward to sharing the day with you all.

 

The James Nayler Foundation exists to promote understanding of Personality Disorder or what we prefer to call emotional distress because that is actually what it is and how it is experienced; and to inject human values into what too often can be a cruel and terrifying experience for sufferers for their families, their friends and for the professionals who are bruised by their attempts to work in a system that provides little in the way of training.

 

Having said that, I think that this year I am a little more optimistic than at previous conferences. There is a bit of a sea change afoot. The argument about whether Personality disorder is treatable is being won, despite the scepticism of many clinicians. The National Institute for Mental Health has just produced this Policy Implementation Guidance for Trusts to develop services for people with personality disorder. I would just like to read out something from it, which encouraged me.

 

“In a study commissioned for this report, Bateman and Tyrell conclude that, whilst more research is needed, there are real grounds for optimism that therapeutic interventions can work for personality disordered patients.”

 

They reviewed the available evidence. They don’t prescribe any particular approach but they conclude that, in general

 

“a combination of psychological treatments reinforced by therapy at critical times is a consensus view of treatment in Personality Disorder…”

 

I think that is a major step forward in thinking. It awaits, of course,  translation into practice, but it’s hopeful. I am pleased to say that we have people here today who have been involved in that translation into practice and who have some optimism in this whole area. I’d like to introduce Elli Godsi. I have got his book here and there are display copies outside. It’s going to be published under a different title later this year (you will be able to find details on our website).

Over to you Elie.

 

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Dr. Elie Godsi: Current and Future Practice

 

Dr Elie Godsi is a Consultant Clinical Forensic Psychologist, Nottingham Forensic services.

Author of ‘Violence in Society – The Reality behind Violent Crime’  Constable (1999)

 

 

My usual style is to try and get people involved and do something interactive but because I only have half an hour I‘m going to shoot through the material. I’m coming from a background of having worked with people who experience distress, in all forms. I have worked in the community, I have worked with adults, and I have worked with adolescents.

 

I am currently working with the Forensic Service, dealing with people who have offended or who are potential offenders, who have problems relating with people or problems in relation to people in terms of their emotional world. I am going to talk about all forms of distress. I don’t have time for the mainstream terminologies in mental health. I prefer the term distress. I want to look at the relationship between behaving in destructive ways in terms of experiencing mental distress and the middle ground with the so-called Personality Disorders.

The central argument is going to be “made not born” and I think that has profound implications for how we view and for how we make sense of people with difficulties; and whether we see them on a continuum of humanity or whether we want to define them as in some way ‘other’.

 

Those are going to be quite central arguments and I’m going to talk my way very rapidly through them. There are a lot of overheads and I shall provide Bob with a copy of them rather than have you scribbling them all down as I speak.

 

How do we make sense of madness and badness? I am interested, culturally and professionally, in how we make sense of madness and badness – as a culture, as professionals, as people in this society at this given period of time. How do we make sense of it? It’s always struck me that in any particular society, at any particular period in it’s history, the way it defines madness and badness says much more about that particular society than it does about the people that are being so defined. It’s very interesting that we have this whole scientific and medical apparatus around the so called Personality Disorders because that says so much about how we are making sense of these things now.

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Cultural and professional myths - defining ‘otherness’.  I am interested in how people get there. I am interested in the aetiology, in how people get to be how they are. I am interested in the relationship between personal distress, self harm and violence and aggression – that’s my career, that’s what I have been doing for the last fifteen years in the NHS, those are the areas in which I am interested. I am interested in the notions of Adaptation rather than the pathologising ab-normalising, technology sort of approach. I think where people go wrong (for me) is in the types of attitudes. I think a more environmentalist and social perspective on people’s difficulties would allow for a more compassionate understanding by making personal experience central.

 

There is a bigger picture and that is the social, the economic, the global context in which relationships are formed, in which children are brought up, which includes much wider social and economic issues but I don’t have time to go into that. Rather than that, I am going to focus down on personal experience, but it is important to bear it in mind: that it is another analysis, it’s another talk, really. Those relationships take place within a particular context: a cultural, a social and an economic context. I haven’t time to go into that. Suffice to say, a more social perspective allows for those things to take centre stage rather than the alternative, which is looking at a person’s biology or their genetics.

 

How do we make sense of madness and badness as a culture generally, not as professionals? I have been going round the country doing a similar talk, collecting views about madness and badness and of course the Personality Disorders sit so beautifully between the notions of madness and badness within this society. We can’t really decide whether they are mad or bad, or both, or neither, or of whether they are treatable or not and what we should do. Here are some examples of the terminology we use. I shall do the official apparatus in a second. There are dozens of these, you know: the usual crazy, loony, gon’ potty, nutter, barmy, bonkers, barking, loopy, crackpot, doo-lally, wappy, fruitcake etc. etc. We talk about 3 sheets, sandwich, pudding - this is a favourite of mine from Lancashire - as bent as a bottle of crisps - the wheel’s turning but the hamster’s not in - another favourite - a luncheon voucher short of an orgy, a headcase, basket case, not all there, not at home, screw loose, lost their  marbles, blown a fuse, cloud cuckoo land, freak, weirdo, schizo, psycho, not exactly compassionate, not exactly kind or understanding terminology but nevertheless the kinds of terminology that are widespread. 

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Central to this is the notion that anybody who is distressed in any way is some way odd. They are deranged, demented, too emotional, irrational, dangerous, violent, scary, menacing, intimidating, frightening, they are out of control, they are unpredictable, they are incomprehensible and we don’t really understand as a culture why it is that someone might wash their hands thirty times a day; why someone has to check the locks thirty times a day or why someone is too frightened to go out of their house. It doesn’t make sense to us readily as a culture how we are to understand things like that. When you look at the heavy end of things, when we look at child abductors, child killers, sexual offenders, at these kinds of things, when we really crank it up, then we get some really interesting notions coming into play.  Of course, historically, as a culture, and globally, many cultures still hold on to religious and spiritual ways of understanding deviancy. These come out - the media headlines are typically along the lines of - evil, demonic, soulless, possessed, we talk about people being the angel of death and the notion ‘psycho’ which sits nicely between the evil, deranged and spiritually defunct person and the psychopathic disorder, modern technology way of understanding things. We talk about people being callous, frenzied, immoral or amoral, barbaric, animals, irresponsible, we can’t decide whether they are out of control and it was a frenzied attack or whether they were in control and they knew exactly what they were doing. We animalise them as reptiles; we talk about them being cold blooded. All these terms serve to define them as OTHER, distinguishing an ‘US AND THEM’. There is something fundamentally different about someone who can do something like that from the us who are over here and who don’t do things like that. What happens to us as a society? How do we try and make sense of these things? Well, of course the obvious way to try and make sense of these things in this society now is to talk about people being sick, people being ill. The predominant discourse for understanding madness and badness in society, if you leave aside the surviving religious and spiritual rules is a medical and a biological one. Now for me, that does the same thing, it serves the same purpose, of othering people. It makes a distinction, usually, howsoever softly couched, in the terms of biology and genetics and in someway implying that people are born different and that’s why they end up being different rather than a different account which is what I am going to try and articulate today.

 

Central to this argument, to the underpinning of the scientific biological and medical explanation is an argument about Nature or Nurture? Now typically, if we are going to be grown up people about this, we’re told, well, it’s a bit of both isn’t it? You know, it’s a bit of this, it’s a bit of both. It’s still the case that many people within the scientific and medical community don’t see it like that. Whether they talk about social and biological factors, at heart is a notion that biology and genetics is absolutely central. Despite the fact that the genetic argument has not been won and that if you actually look at the genetics of something like schizophrenia, for example, there is a huge amount of work done deconstructing and debunking that particular kind of notion. I haven’t got time to go into that but I am quite happy to discuss that with anybody at any point. It’s typically seen within mainstream circles, as far as I can see with my experience of mental health services is that it’s typically seen as about 85% Nature and about 15% Nurture. I think and genuinely believe, with my experience as a clinician over the last fifteen years, that it is completely the opposite way round! It’s about 85% Nurture and about 15% Nature! Let me articulate this in terms of how the official apparatus views these things.

 

The more a person has suffered, the more severe their distress or destructive behaviour will be and yet the more likely they are to be defined as ‘ill’ and their life experiences effectively ignored. One good thing about the illness model is that it does nullify the notions of blame. It’s difficult in terms of responsibility but it does get us away from blame. Unfortunately, the price of doing things that way, because I think that there are better ways of getting away from notions of blame, is that you fall into the trap of othering people.

 

In other words, the greater the actual contribution of the environment (nurture) the more likely that nature will be used as the explanation for their distress or their behaviour and therefore as a rationale for how best to ‘treat’ them. This leads to an erroneous chain of events that I will call (rather tongue in cheek if it were not so serious) “The Psychiatric Laws of Personal Distress”. These go along the following lines:

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1. The more damaging the environment, (past, present or both) the more extreme the forms of distress (or behaviour or emotional experience) it generates will be.

 

2. The greater the severity of the distress (the more destructive the behaviour, the more incapacitated the person is as a result of their distress) the greater the likelihood of it being seen as a medical condition.

 

3. The more medicalised the distress, the greater the likelihood that those damaging experiences which gave rise to the distress in the first place will be relegated to the status of mere ‘background noise’ and the person in distress seen as having succumb to their genetic fate.

 

This is the schizophrenia as puberty model. It doesn’t really matter that much what happens to someone, at some point if they are genetically predisposed, if their genes are wired up in that way, it’s going to come out. I am simplifying things but, unfortunately, that is how the model is used time and time again!

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This cartoon sums up things for me. This is the horrific ordeal that psychotic people have to sit through in a lecture theatre in front of a whole lot of people. Can you imagine being paranoid and terrified and feeling persecuted and being wheeled out in front of a group of medical students to talk funny to show people what the symptoms of schizophrenia are like? Well, actually you have somebody who is actually terrified in the middle of that. It actually sums things up for me, of the kind of approach that we are talking about here.

 

Defining people as Personality Disordered. What a terrible thing to have befall you! To be told that your personality is disordered! Is it that difficult to understand? Let’s take a quick look at a few definitions. Is it that difficult to understand, for example, (taken from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) that the paranoid Personality Disorder is

 

“A pattern of distrust and suspiciousness such that others’ motives are interpreted as malevolent?”

 

Is it that difficult to understand the context in which something like that would arise?

 

“Individuals with paranoid personality disorder are often difficult to get along with and often have problems with close relationships....They are hypervigilant for potential threats.... and appear to be “cold” and lacking in tender feelings” (p.635).

 

An example of othering:

 

“They are preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates” (p.637, italics my emphasis).

 

Someone else is deciding whether that is justifiable or not.

 

Schizoid Personality Disorder...

 

“...is a pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of emotional expression.”

 

“They appear to lack a desire for intimacy, seem indifferent to opportunities to develop close relationships, and do not seem to derive much pleasure from being part of a family or other social group” (p.638).

 

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The “Avoidant Personality Disorder” 

 

shows restraint within intimate relationships because of fear of being shamed or ridiculed.... is pre-occupied with being criticised or rejected in social situations.... Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others.” (p. 665).

 

I’d say that if anyone didn’t have those feelings from time to time they would be personality disordered. (laughter). I could go on.

 

The process of ‘othering’ is absolutely crucial. I want to look at what happens when we don’t take into account the experiences that lead people to get to where they are. I’ve written a lot about Robert Thompson and John Venables who are forever etched on the minds of everybody in terms of what happened to poor James Bulger. Neither the trial nor much of the media debate had anything to do with what had happened to those two boys in the first ten years of their life. The trial was just there to say, “Did they do it? Yes. Did they know the difference between right and wrong in some abstract sense? Yes, they did” – that was what the court was there to determine. Nothing else was important. There was very little meaningful discussion of what had actually happened to those two boys before they did what they did. There was certainly little or no discussion at any point about the fact that there was an unmistakeable sexualised element to the killing, for example – not in the tabloids, not in the media, not in the documentaries. That was simply omitted. Without that kind of information which gives us vital clues – the fact that what they did to James Bulger had a sexual element to it – as a clinician, that tells you something about those children’s’ experience. But that just wasn’t currency. So what are we left with? We’re left with a discussion about videos. We’re left with the discussion, as a society, with the effect of one video, which they didn’t even watch, on the lives of these children rather than everything else that was going on in their lives.  I think that is astonishing.

So what happens to those boys in the process is that they are ‘othered’, they are defined as in some way different. There were lots of quotes, lots of explanations of them such as, - “they are freaks, you can’t compare them to other boys. They are different.” The price you pay when you don’t actually understand what was going on is that the Judges, the police, are very quick to define these children as somehow different from other boys. That they were ‘freakish’, that they were evil in some way. Of course, the inference is that they were born that way, and not made that way. I’ve written a lot about what happened to those two boys in the ten years before they did what they did. There isn’t anything that you can think of that didn’t happen to those two boys.

Time and space doesn’t permit me to go into any great detail here but you find the usual sort of things that you would expect:

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The sexual problems: the killings strongly suggest that at least one of the boys was sexually and physically abused, there was bullying and absolute chaos in terms of their boundaries, problems with alcohol in the families and so on. The bigger picture being that they live in an area of high unemployment and deprivation.

 

The counter argument (which I shall attempt to deconstruct) goes – “OK – so what? There are thousands of seriously abused little boys who don’t go on to become killers. Up and down the country social services are involved with lots of children that have those kinds of backgrounds, yet they don’t end up committing these sorts of offences.”

 

Lets just keep this simple. Let’s take one hundred boys. Let us just consider that they have been physically abused only. This is a gross over simplification since cases are rarely presented in which there is only one kind of abuse. Lets take a sample of 100 physically abused boys and let us follow them into adulthood and let us see what happens to them.

 

How many of them become known adult male violent offenders?

 

-          It’s about 10%

 

The majority doesn’t the argument goes. There isn’t a strong link. But. If you do it the other way round. If we take a number of physically violent male adults and we ask them

 

How many of them had physically abusive childhood experiences?

 

-          It’s 95%

 

Looking back into their experiences, the answer is very different. I get people coming into my clinic and saying “I was abused and I think that means I could be an abuser” – well, the good news is that most of them won’t be! On the other side you get people who are violent saying that “I had an horrific experience as a child” and people saying to them “Well, that’s avoiding responsibility, you’re lying, you’re delusional, you’re just making that up. You’re using  that as an excuse.”

It isn’t an excuse; it’s an explanation. You can understand something without condoning it. You can understand something by trying to explain it, without excusing it.

 

What happens to the others? Lets take these 100 boys and let us say, for the sake of argument, that 10 of them become violent men. What happens to the others? Some of them end up as OK – as teachers, politicians or psychiatrists, mental health professionals or whatever. (laughter) Some of them end up as violent in acceptable ways like boxers, the army, something like that. Some of them are not known offenders. They are not indicated in the statistics. Most violence takes place in secrecy, behind closed doors and is never reported. Some of them end up on drink and drugs; some end up homeless, some of them end up with so-called personality disorders. The very common path of mental health sufferers: a significant proportion of them will end up dead, suicide. In the Forensic service I commonly see those who end up with drink and drug problems, as homeless, psychotic, within the criminal justice system, within the mental health system. The pathways are not so simple to monitor. They are quite varied.

 

What happens if these children suffer multiple forms of abuse, physical, sexual and emotional abuse, being stuck in the care system. Then repeat the abuse – give them fifteen different homes in ten years. What happens to those children? The figures for those who end up in the criminal justice system, in the mental health system, in the high secure hospitals or committing suicide go up and up. The figures for those OK ones go down and down. One third of the prison population are care leavers. One third! If you think of the number of children in care as a proportion of the number of children in society (an infinitessimally small proportion) that they will then make up one third of the prison population is astonishing! It is an astonishing disproportion!

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I want to say something about the OK group who are typically seen as the “supergenes” (irony). They’ve taken everything we can throw at them! They’ve come out OK! There must be something really resilient about this group. They’ve got supergenes. But, no. Environmentalists don’t buy that. They think that there are better explanations. Now, I’m not saying that genes don’t play any part but the crucial thing that decides that you can go through these kinds of experiences and come out OK, in the broad sense, is the absence or presence of positive, caring and nurturing relationships in that persons experience. That’s the crucial thing. I’ve worked with professionals - out-patients - inpatients - prisoners and prisoner patients, with the whole range. The worst life histories that I’ve heard were when I was working at Rampton. No doubt about that for me! The irony is that they were the people who were the most medicalised group of people that I have ever worked with; they were the most defined in terms of their ‘mental illnesses’ and their ‘personality disorders’. Leaving that aside. I’ve worked with lots of people who were professional people, who ended up relatively unscathed despite horrific backgrounds, precisely because there was one kind grandparent, there was one safe place to go to, there was one benign professional who stuck with them over a long period of time. That’s the crucial defining factor as to where people end up. The crucial and defining factor is not the severity and duration of the abuse it is rather what positive experience they have had.

 

It’s a continuum of love and violence, of stability to chaos. A continuum of emotional to physical abuse, it’s a continuum along social, cultural and economic lines. I’m running out of time.

 

Very quickly, what are the implications for therapeutic practice? We have to find ways of not othering people because it is the attitudes that are most destructive in the way people are dealt with in the mental health system.

 

We need  moral and ethical responses not technical solutions, we need a model of healing rather than ‘treatment’. We should value and hang on to people’s humanity despite everything. We have to be fair – using respect and compassion taking account how people got to where they are. Respect not degradation and punishment. We need to democratise the therapeutic space in some way. Boundaries not power and control – boundaries are very easily turned into an issue of power and control but that’s not what I’m talking about if you are coming from a humane stance. That is not to say you don’t behave professionally. That is not to say you can’t be very clear and straight with people. It is precisely about that. Offering choices whenever possible, affirming people’s experience and allowing the truth to be spoken. “You are not making it up, you are not delusional. “ There are lots of Offender Programmes in the Prison system, for example, that explicitly proscribe looking back at people’s background and experience because they are there as offenders and not as people who have experiences that may have led them to that, which is seen as avoiding responsibility in some way.

 

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Validating feelings, and I would say, the centrality of the emotions and understanding people’s emotions means understanding their relationships. I am sceptical about therapeutic treatment constantly being put forward as cognitive behavioural these days. I have a problem with that.

 

It is important that we recognise distress, acknowledge pain and suffering. If you have someone who is paranoid, they are frightened. Might they have good reason for being frightened? Even though you might not be able to get to the bottom of that, they will have good reasons for being frightened. Working with shame without shaming – the model of tut-tut just doesn’t work! People have got to feel shame for themselves rather than being tut tutted at. We have to recognise resilience in the face of adversity (self-hypocrisy). I worked with lots of women at Rampton. I just sat there and I thought, “How come you weren’t violent before you were? How could you go through all of that and wait that long before you fought back?” These people have remarkable powers of resilience. We don’t talk about resilience in psychiatry. Legitimising protest not passive accommodation – we don’t want passive individuals. That’s not what being a member of society means or requires. Let us encourage the notion that we are in it together rather than the ‘us and them’.

 

I leave you with this thought: is there anyone here who has not been:

 

•      abused, beaten, bullied, derided, violated, degraded, humiliated, hurt, rejected, marginalised, excluded, dismissed, devalued, undermined, tormented, cheated, conned, taken advantaged of, coerced, made to do things they haven’t wanted to?

 

•      Felt powerless or hopeless or worthless or alienated or despair?

 

•      What people really need today is a damn good listening to…..            Mary Lou Casey

 

 

That’s what it’s all been about for me. If you can recognise your own experiences within this continuum, then I think that’s a good starting point.

And I’ll leave it there. (applause).

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Definitions from Dr Godsi’s slides – the text

 

 

      The more a person has suffered, the more severe their distress or destructive behaviour will be and yet the more likely they are to be defined as ‘ill’ and their life experiences effectively ignored. In other words, the greater Laws of Personal Distress”.

The Psychiatric Laws of Personal Distress

      1. The more damaging the environment, (past, present or both) the more extreme the forms of distress (or behaviour) it generates will be.

 

      2. The greater the severity of the distress the greater the likelihood of it being seen as a medical condition.

 

      3. The more medicalised the distress, the greater the likelihood that those damaging experiences which gave rise to the distress in the first place will be relegated to the status of mere ‘background noise’ and the person in distress seen as having succumb to their genetic fate.

 

‘PERSONALITY DISORDERS’

      The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, defines aspects of the various ‘personality disorders’ in the following ways:

 

      Paranoid Personality Disorder is a pattern of distrust and suspiciousness such that others’ motives are interpreted as malevolent.

 

      “Individuals with paranoid personality disorder are often difficult to get along with and often have problems with close relationships....They are hypervigilant for potential threats.... and appear to be “cold” and lacking in tender feelings” (p.635).

 

      “They are preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates” (p.637, italics my emphasis).

 

‘PERSONALITY DISORDERS’

      Schizoid Personality Disorder...

 

      ...is a pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of emotional expression.

 

      “They appear to lack a desire for intimacy, seem indifferent to opportunities to develop close relationships, and do not seem to derive much pleasure from being part of a family or other social group” (p.638).

 

      “Has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person.... Shows emotional coldness, detachment or flattened affectivity”. (p. 641)

‘PERSONALITY DISORDERS’

      Avoidant Personality Disorder 

 

      “a pervasive pattern of social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy.... is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked.... shows restraint within intimate relationships because of fear of being shamed or ridiculed.... is pre-occupied with being criticised or rejected in social situations.... Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others.” (p. 665).

 

‘PERSONALITY DISORDERS’

      Dependent Personality Disorder

 

      is a pattern of submissive and clinging behaviour related to an excessive need to be taken care of.

 

      “has difficulty expressing disagreement with others because of fear of loss of support or approval.... urgently seeks another relationship as a source of care and support when a close relationship ends.... is unrealistically preoccupied with fears of being left to take care of himself or herself” (p.668/9).

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‘PERSONALITY DISORDERS’

      Similarly, the ICD-10 Classification of Mental and Behavioural Disorders (the World Health Organisation denomination of the psychiatric bible) defines personality disorders in the following way:

 

      “A specific personality disorder is severe disturbance in the characterological constitution and behavioural tendencies of the individual, usually involving several areas of the personality, and nearly always associated with considerable personal and social disruption.... They represent either extreme or significant deviation from the way the average individual in a given culture perceives, thinks, feels, and particularly relates to others.

 

      “The abnormal behaviour pattern is enduring, or long standing.... the  abnormal behaviour pattern is pervasive and clearly maladaptive to a broad range of personal and social situations.... the above manifestations always appear during childhood or adolescence and continue in to adulthood (italics my emphasis).” (F60).

 

Prospective                           (forwards in time)

 

      100 physically abused boys

 

      follow their progress in to adulthood: how many become violent adults?

 

      About 10%

Retrospective        (backwards in time)

 

      100 physically violent adults

 

      look back in to their histories: were they abused as children?

 

      95%

 

Implications for therapeutic space
- reclaiming humanity

 

      Affirming experience - allowing the truth to be spoken

      Validating feelings - the centrality of emotions - the centrality of relationships

      Recognising distress - acknowledging pain and suffering

      Working with shame without shaming

      Recognising resilience in the face of adversity (self-hypocrisy)

      Legitimising protest not passive accommodation

      We are in it together vs. ‘us and them’

Reclaiming humanity

      Is there anyone here who has not been:

 

      abused, beaten, bullied, derided, violated, degraded, humiliated, hurt, rejected, marginalised, excluded, dismissed, devalued, undermined, tormented, cheated, conned, taken advantaged of, coerced, made to do things they haven’t wanted to?

 

      Felt powerless or hopeless or worthless or alienated or despair?

Reclaiming humanity more

      What people really need today is a damn good listening to…..  Mary Lou Casey

 

      “His despair was intensified by the consciousness that he was utterly alone in his misery; not only in Petersburg but in the whole world there was not a single person to whom he might unburden himself, who would feel for him, not as a high official, not as a member of society, but simply as a suffering human being”.                                        

      Tolstoy’s “Anna Karenina” (about Anna’s husband Karenin)

 

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Reclaiming humanity even more

 

      “…the comfort, the inexpressible comfort, of feeling safe with a person; having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words, but to pour them all out just as they are, chaff and grain together, knowing that a faithful hand will take and sift them, keep what is worth keeping, and then, with the breath of kindness, blow the rest away.”

 

 

      Middlemarch, George Eliot

 

 

 

 

 

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Dr Rex Haigh The Role & value of Therapeutic Communities

 

Dr Rex Haigh, Consultant Psychiatrist in Psychotherapy, Winterbourne, Reading, and Chair of the association of Therapeutic Communities. He has a special interest in involving service users in teaching and research, and in struggling to keep therapeutic ideals in mind in the bureaucracy of the NHS.

 

I’m going to talk about therapeutic communities, and try and give an idea of what they are about and what they are up against. I hope I can convey to you how they aren’t some strange little units that are a bit quirky and old-fashioned (or wild, as there are sometimes rumours)– but are really about the sort of life-affirming things that matter to all of us. And I think these things are under threat as much as ever at the moment – in a pincer movement caught between the Government’s unchallengeable drive for “modernisation” (which seems to mean setting therapeutically meaningless and arid bureaucratic targets) and a rampant tide of individualism and consumerism (that values individuals’ rights well above the need to establish a culture of meaningful interdependence). To me, both seem to be inexorable consequences of the terrible times of the 1980s that haven’t abated much under what we had hoped would be a more sympathetic Government. But enough rant on matters that I don’t know much about – I want to start with a story. My first encounter with a therapeutic community.

 

In about 1980 I remember being sent to a strange place. I was a medical student, and we were often sent to strange places -  like orthopaedic operating  theatres where the surgeons wear space suits and do operations by remote control to rural GP surgeries where Dr Finlay would have been at home; from rooms where babies are born to rooms where corpses are dismembered. This one was even more different, though.

 

I had been warned by previous students that this acute psychiatric admission ward, the Phoenix Unit, in Oxford, in 1980, was not somewhere to wear the normal jacket and tie. So I kitted myself out in a big red sweater and jeans, and I arrived there on a bicycle a couple of minutes after the suggested 8.30, and I was casually pointed in the direction of a large dilapidated room where I soon had to forget any ideas I had of hospital hygiene. I squeezed into the room to be confronted with a large circle of chairs - perhaps 40 strangers - where it wasn't possible to tell the consultant from the cleaner.  I had to find my own chair and pull it up next to a large restless man who just looked at me and laughed. "What's your diagnosis then, eh? You must be manic like me with a jumper like that." He trumpeted this at about 120 decibels, everybody laughed, and I just wanted the ground to swallow me up. Uh oh – life on a TC starts here. There was an excruciating silence (probably all of twenty seconds) before everybody introduced themselves.

 

After my initial culture shock of joining a therapeutic community, I went on to thoroughly enjoy it. I found something completely different about the way people were with each other - I learnt my psychiatry the same as other students who were on traditional wards, but I also got an inkling of something that is very hard to define or put in words. It was something about being allowed to be yourself, about playfulness, and creativity.  

 

Now, nearly twenty five years later, I am the consultant on a TC (and I don’t think you could tell me from the cleaner on a bad day), and I am still trying to work out just what "it", this intangible quality, is.  When I teach  medical students and junior doctors, and all sorts of others, about TCs, the one thing they all know (if they know anything at all) is what has been called Rapoport's four "Articles of Faith": permissiveness, reality confrontation, democratisation and communalism. The trouble is that I am not happy any longer they really describe what happens on many TCs. I have been to many different TCs, and tried hard to squeeze their practice into words like "permissiveness" and "democratisation", without feeling that those words were doing justice nowadays to what was happening. So that’s what I’m on the hunt for, and I hope to give you some sort of answer by the end.

 

When some visitors came to Winterboune a couple of weeks ago, they asked me: "What is a therapeutic community exactly?" - and I found myself saying something hopelessly woolly like "a place where the whole experience of being part of it can make a difference to somebody's life afterwards". And the way I think of these things it is particularly the relationships in it that make the difference - it is as if they come to realise that life need not be like they expect it to be, or as it always has been. I think it is only if we can find a way of really valuing these relationships - and including a member's relationship with him or her self - that we start to see what really matters. And funnily enough, I think it ends up quite simple - and actually very challenging to a lot of contemporary mental health practice.

 

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Before I begin to look at what happens in these relationships, I just want to spend a few moments on what might be called a problem of context. In a way, this is about considering all the relationships which come into play: not just between members of the community, or between us and the members. It also includes our relationship with the unit or institution we work in (like us with the NHS – except that one took a severe turn for the worse last week), and the sociopolitical system that is a part of.

 

This gets horribly complicated if we try to define them all, but they do have a major impact on the work. Why are so few TCs in existence now, for example? I would say that the answer has to lie in the institutional environment, and - even more importantly - in our response to it. In the Northfield experiments during the war, Bion set up a TC, but blew it in six weeks because what he did was too radical and didn't take into account the system he was part of - the strict military hierarchy. We must not repeat his mistake - which is perhaps something that TCs have done in the past, and we’re struggling with in ATC at the moment: to adapt the helpful bits of “modernisation” in a generally therapeutic way without “selling out”. I can give examples of that later, if you want.

 

But crucially, a therapeutic community approach, indeed any psychotherapy of any depth, cannot be considered as a reified and isolated item of treatment taken apart from its context. It is not like a drug which is administered under the guidance of some sort of expert, nor is it a box that can be filled in as an item of "care". In mental health I think it fundamentally challenges other notions of "care", and exposes a vacuum at their centre, as something rather insubstantial and empty. In other words, care is ultimately meaningless unless in the context of a  relationship which really matters.

 

Since I have been in medicine - and I first trained as a GP and completed that about 15 years ago - I think there are three sorts of "care" you come across, and I shall call them medical, administrative and therapeutic.

 

By "medical", I mean the whole box of tricks that modern medical science and technology has brought us: coronary artery grafts, cloning genes and embryos, prevention of cancer by screening, powerful antibiotics, numerous other things and - in our own field - potent antidepressants. I'm not including the art of medicine - bedside manner, listening, allowing healing to take place naturally - which I would put into the "therapeutic" category of "care". I just want to say that the medical or technical approach by itself is rarely enough. And thinking about PD, people whose lifelong experience - and deeply felt expectation - is of arbitrary use of power over them, inadequate or perverted care, and life without much meaning, "medical care" can feel at best useless and at worst like yet more abuse. It seems hardly surprising that some people "act out", and often end up running rings round us - I don't blame them. I hope these things have come through in the user-consultation bit of the new NHS policy for “personality disorder” – again, something I’d be happy to talk about later.

 

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But administrative care seems to be what we are now in the high era of. It may be more democratic and less authoritarian than a strict medical model, but I think it gives spurious legitimacy to a rather cold and faceless authority, and I don’t think we should sign up to it. This works through the stranglehold it has got with words like "accountability", "transparency" and "fairness". But it is the consequence of what Kleinian psychoanalysts would call the paranoid-schizoid mentality of a repressive culture – in Daily Mail-speak, it is the "something must be done about it" tendency. Rather than tolerate anxiety and risk through relationship, a defence is used. The defence is usually called a "policy" or a "procedure" - some bureaucratic device to put a distance between the awfulness of some peoples' existence and the limited and meagre resources available to care. This "administrative care" I am talking about has names like "case management" or "CPA" or "supervision register". It fundamentally reduces the person in need of care to the passive subject of some often unfathomably complex Kafka-esque machine. It encourages dependency, and strips those who give care and those who need care of their autonomy. It distorts relationships (never allowing them to be open in a therapeutic way) and produces quite justifiable opposition and resistance in those upon whom it is imposed - staff and patients, I think. It ignores most of the therapeutic principles which I am going to spend the second half of this talk defining and explaining. Of course it is completely justified for a thousand reasons (many to do with resources and risk) - but all of those reasons are there because it is politically based on the paranoid position of "covering our backs" rather than the more difficult "depressive" position - that’s the Kleinian opposite of “paranoid-schizoid - and it basically means a mature, longsuffering and maybe a bit cynical attitude of accepting the good with the bad and not expecting squeaky clean technical perfection with all the boxes ticked. It means tolerating uncertainty, anxiety and risk - and engaging in the hard struggle of really changing things from the inside out, if you like – hearts and minds perhaps. I first wrote about this in 1987 amidst high hopes that New Labour stood for this, rather than a cosmetic managerial approach (particularly in the public services) but I fear ‘tis not the case, and there isn’t any understanding or interest in people’s real value or experience. Meritocracy isn’t good enough for many people.

 

So, onto the third paradigm of care, which I'm calling therapeutic. This is more to do with love than with technology or procedure. Not romantic or sexual love – but about other people’s minds and feelings mattering to us. This is what some therapists call agape or koinonia – like the biblical injunction to love one’s neighbour as oneself, and of affiliation and kinship in medium sized groups. Of course, it is what we intuitively mean by "care" - like when we say "take care" or  "doctor so-and-so cares about his patients". It is the ghost we need in the machine, where the machine is the bureaucracy, or that high-tech medical box of tricks). It might show through practical things (like a GP making house visits that aren’t strictly necessary, to a person who’s dying) but it is really about our human, emotional and invisible interdependence on each other, and looking at the relationship in which that happens. It signifies a depth of mutual respect, a tolerance of good-enough-ness (as Winnicott called it), and a way of being with the other person that transcends roles or hierarchies or power - although they may also be there. It is what I think we are in a particularly good position to do when we work with a therapeutic community framework, although of course it also happens in places other than TCs. 

 

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An example of therapeutic care. Through our “Community of Communities” lottery-funded project, I went to visit three TCs in Athens just before Christmas, and have been thinking about how mental health teams could be run on therapeutic community principles – rather than the arid administrative way they often are now (and which was rightly condemned by a recent President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, John Cox). I think it is still a long way off - but it did remind me of the astonishing service that is run on TC lines at the Open Therapy Centre in Athens. What happens is that if a patient or relative phones the unit in the midst of some sort of crisis - not unlike any mental health crisis we would have in this country - the way they respond is like a breath of fresh air to me: about how things can be done, in  way that cares without undue bureaucracy or medicalisation. A "flying squad" of four assemble themselves from within the main TC at the Open Therapy Centre - and that will be two community members and two staff. They go to the house where the crisis is happening, and spend maybe half a day there doing an assessment. Then they make decisions with the family about who needs help, and how it can be arranged. And that might mean immediate admission to appropriate parts of the therapeutic day programme for one or more members of the family - and, without more ado, it happens. They have no beds, the team includes psychiatrists who can prescribe medication, and they have shown better outcome results than the alternative state services who run inpatient facilities. No surprise there, and it’s probably very relevant that it’s not part of the state system and patients are charged on a "pay-what-you-can-afford" basis. Nobody is turned down through inability to pay.

 

In contrast, for most of the people who we deal with, technical medical care and heavy duty administration is often given in abundance when it is just what they don't need – like expensive investigations and physical treatments that aren't addressing the real problem.  Of course those things are needed in their place, but this is not their place. And I baulk in horror at the sums of money being invested in high technological solutions to human and social problems: a great deal is spent wastefully on investigations and procedures which everybody knows are extremely unlikely to be of lasting benefit. Recent research work at the TC in Leicester - Francis Dixon Lodge - has shown how much money can be saved by definitive treatment in a TC. They have showed that psychiatric bed use is reduced to about one third of its previous level after admission to their TC - comparing the three years before and the three years after admission. Yet many TCs in the country are run on virtually fresh air, and very few are properly resourced. I heard the other day that our non-residential NHS therapeutic community in Reading costs about the same as one bed in the sparkly new PFI “Prospect Hospital” that’s opening half a mile away next month. Prospect is an auspicious word indeed: perhaps more accurately “NO prospect” - of developing low-tech, human, grown from the ground upwards, locally meaningful services. And all this in the face of all Gordon Brown’s NHS billions being spent on meeting these modernisation targets in bureaucratic and highly managed, but therapeutically destitute, systems. For example, the funding that goes with the new NHS PD policy is an outrage: over £128M went immediately to set up the new DSPD units, which very few people believe in, for less than 2000 patients. For the 5 or 10 MILLION people who suffer with their PD in silent desperation, clinging on as best they can, (13% it says in the DoH guidance) there will be less than a tenth of that amount (£18m we heard the other day), spread thinly around the country. By my reckoning, that will be about 400 therapists with a caseload of about 35,000 each. If they were pretty efficient, you’d get 3 minutes each per year. Small wonder we spend all the money on Prozac.

 

But many of those who are not much helped by NHS psychiatry currently cost a fortune in services which don’t help them much, or actually make them worse. If we look at it as a primary problem of attachment (about which I’ll be saying more later), who can be surprised that these people try and seek care wherever they can? Is it unexpected that they frequently attend their GPs, and if they don't feel cared for there, they cut their arms or take overdoses or numerous other things - all of which cost the NHS dearly but make little difference to them? And the response is no less surprising - labels to keep them at a distance: "attention-seeking", "personality disorder", "heart sink", "multi-agency family". But to step back, the "symptom" of unrequited care-seeking, is exactly what we would expect of somebody who never experienced it properly it in the first place – again, I’m coming back to this. So the economic measures are exactly what we are hoping to make a difference to: if somebody feels well cared for, they will not make unreasonable demands of the services. And we hope that the relationships in TCs can be "taken inside" people in a way that lasts for the rest of their lives.

 

To come back to "administrative care", I am sure many areas of practice have been made more efficient by the managerial approach I've just been so rude about. But now that it is seen as the main approach for mental health problems, we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Because these bureaucratically-run services don't seek a way to value and use their relationships with those they try to help, they risk becoming machines and losing their humanity, and making their professionalism like a pompous show of authority, through things like CPA and use of the Mental Health Act.

 

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I have mentioned a couple of political points, and I do think this is political, and it’s not my field so I can’t go into it very far. It is the politics of how we are with each other - I can't remember who it was who said something like "the personal is the political", but that is exactly what it is about. Do we all want to live in an anxious, brittle, sort-of borderline state where nothing feels safe - or do we want to aim for real change in the way we look at the world? That is a personal question as well as a political one - and I think we create an artificial outer or inner world if we try to separate the two. We live in the inner world we create - and we deserve the outer world we get. To be extremely contentious, I don’t think anybody can humanly think that America deserves to have people randomly killed, but what they are doing at the moment seems likely to make it more probable in the future, not less. And perhaps this is all because they see themselves in an anxious, brittle, dangerous world, which they have to defend to the limit in a paranoid-schizoid way - rather than talk about why some people might hate them, and where they might have got it wrong.

 

Enough imponderable problems, I want to turn to solutions – at least at the level of thee and me. This is fundamentally about recreating an environment in which these human things can happen, and the experience of that can change people’s expectations, and maybe their lives.

 

So I want to propose a simple theory that is a framework to the importance of the experience of being a member of a TC. I believe that the internal experience is what changes people - in the same way as our experience of life as we grow up makes us much of what we are.  It uses some of Rapoport's ideas (like I mentioned earlier – TCs being defined as permissive, reality confrontation etc), take some of the concepts of object relations theory, and borrow from the ideas of group analytic psychotherapy – so it’s peppered with the names of great psychoanalysts and it’s their ideas that I have thrown together.

 

It is a journey through five linked ideas - five concepts which describe essential qualities of a therapeutic environment. The way I have put them together is also a progression, a developmental progression - from the vulnerability and nakedness of attachment, through both maternal and paternal aspects of containment to the social intercourse of communication. Then onto the adolescent struggle of involvement and the adult and empowered position of agency - finding the self which is the seat of action, and for members of our TCs to deploy their own power and effectiveness.

 

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In this theory, emotional development is something that happens to all of us. It is the sequence of necessary experience to end up with a normal personality. Of course, nobody's personality is perfect - but for most of us, our development has been "good enough" - so we survive in a reasonable way most of the time. But some people end up with personalities that mean they have considerable difficulty. They have trouble in much of their dealings with what we call reality: the inner world, relationships and the way they get on in the world - like education, employment and general functioning. In object relations language, they lack object constancy, relate in a part-object way and live continually through intense transferences. In psychiatric terms, they have personality disorder and an increased risk of episodes of mental illness.

 

Is it genetic or environmental? Nature or nurture? I want to argue that the question is irrelevant, because it is all of both. A child is born with a certain genetic makeup, and history of nourishment, space, oxygenation and chemical milieu in utero. Before birth, these have an almost total effect on what sort of brain and body he or she has. Some children are born with much more difficult constitutions than others: more needy, we could say. For example, a child with certain random genes, severe anoxia at birth or exposed to much alcohol in utero will have a different brain to a luckier child. And some of those children will be "more difficult" - it will be harder to meet their emotional developmental needs. I wonder if this is what Melanie Klein called "death instinct": some children are born with more of it than others.

 

After birth, what happens to every child is development. For the lucky ones, as long as they have a "good enough" parenting, they will emerge well-adjusted. The constitutionally disadvantaged ones may come out OK if they have extra input for their emotional development - and maybe that includes professional help. But any child who has a bad experience of emotional development will end up at a higher risk of having an unhelpful view of themselves, other people, and the world - in other words, a personality disorder. By bad experience, I mean something that disrupts their emotional safety, for example:

     neglect

     deprivation

     abuse

     trauma

     loss

Some people in the field, for example Sandra Bloom from New York and Felicity Zulueta from Charing Cross in London, see all these as varieties of trauma: but I think the difference between us is only semantic. For example, deprivation is trauma – like the consequences of loss of something you never had.

 

Some with a fortunate or strong constitution may be protected, and able to cope fairly well as adults, because they have some good relationships to help develop a less distorted view of themselves, others and the world. Those who start life with a congenital disadvantage are very much likelier to suffer a severe impact from inadequate emotional development.

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And to make it more complicated still - and even more impossible to separate out the nature and nurture effects - both aspects (what we are born with, and environmental conditions) are continuously variable, and not simply "good" or "bad". Environmental conditions (including how much a child feels loved) also change over time. And I think modern neuro-imaging and neuroscientific techniques (with all that hi-tech gear I’ve been so rude about) support this idea by showing us that environmental events can have an impact on brain structure itself. And of course, it works the other way too. The way a child behaves - because of its brain maybe - will have an effect on, for example, whether it is punished or comforted. So I think it is far too complex to ever say reductionist things like "personality disorder is 65% genetic" - it is never possible to separate them like that - it is all of both.

 

So emotional development is something that needs to be considered for everybody - not just for those who end up with severe and incapacitating difficulties. And what I have described could be called “PRIMARY EMOTIONAL DEVELOPMENT”. By that, I mean what happens - or should happen - as a normal part of growing up. So constitutional make-up + primary emotional development = personality.

 

Psychotherapy, and therapeutic communities in particular, offer the opportunity to re-experience emotional development  which I call "SECONDARY EMOTIONAL DEVELOPMENT". Hopefully, from this, people can gain experience that leads to better adjustment, and less likelihood of breakdown with mental illness.

 

So, back to the developmental sequence. I am saying that the five necessary experiences for a satisfactory emotional development are

     attachment (feeling connected, and belonging)

     containment (feeling safe)

     communication (feeling heard, in a culture of openness)

     inclusion (feeling involved, as part of the whole)

     agency (feeling empowered with a solid sense of self)

 

Now I will just spend a minute on each to explain its roots, and how we recreate it in a TC.

 

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Attachment

All individuals start their lives attached: umbilically, within the mother and with the blood of one flowing right next to the blood of the other.  At birth, this attachment is suddenly and irreversibly severed: it is the first separation and loss, with many others to come later.  How well the emotional and nurturant bond replaces the physical one was classically described by Bowlby. He describes problems resulting in anxious attachment or avoidant attachment; it’s very similar to Balint's "Basic Fault", which is about a lack of fit between mother and baby -the bond is not secure, and nor is the infant.

 

When disturbance is this fundamental, the first task of treatment is to reconstruct a secure attachment, and then use that to bring about changes in deeply ingrained expectations of relationships and patterns of behaviour.

 

What we so often find in working in TCs is that attachment is powerfully sought, but strongly feared. This is the struggle between Fairbairn's libidinal and antilibidinal egos: the one desperate and needy, and the other angry and rejecting. Not enough stable ground has developed between them, and the demands of reality almost always meet the emotional responses of anger, shame, humiliation and pain.

 

Containment

This one is about the experience of safety, and the capacity to trust oneself, other people and the world in general. A balanced internal representation of containment is both maternal and paternal. The maternal element is safety and survival in the face of infantile pain, rage and despair.  All those are certainly permitted, and this in itself may be a mutative new experience for community members, whose usual expectation will be to face hostility, rejection and isolation when they feel and act like this. Now they have the new experience of not having these powerful primitive feelings denied and invalidated. 

 

The paternal element is about limits, discipline and rules. I know this is stereotyping – it’s just to make the point simpler to say. Again it is safety - but safety through knowing what is and is not possible and permitted. The same as knowing the limits, or enforcing the boundaries.

 

Bion described this process best: he talked about the turbulent and primitive internal experience, and its link to thinking and the earliest mental states imaginable. Winnicott described the sensuous and nurturant qualities of the environment in which it needed to happen: the mother who actively gives the baby a sense of its own existence. It is the difference between "containing" and "holding" - one is mostly inside, and one is mostly outside – but these are the key features of what we need to do to provide containment.

 

Communication

Tom Main wrote that the culture of a unit is more decisive in bringing about change in human relationships, than is the structure. He wrote of the "culture of enquiry" .  I want to try calling it “a culture of openness” to make it less inquisitorial. Of course, openness is what a lot of therapy is all about: "talking treatments", "putting it into words", and "being heard". It is very important, it is at the heart of therapy - but I think we must not forget what comes before it, and what needs to be done with it afterwards. A demand on people for open communication is simply not enough: they must want it, and feel safe about doing it. This requires an intangible quality that must be present in the atmosphere. It mostly depends on establishing the first two conditions: attachment and containment - for it is only when a member belongs and feels safe that they can start to look at and think about potentially difficult and painful experience.

 

I think this is what Foulkes – the founder of group analysis - implied when he wrote "Working towards an ever-more articulate form of communication is identical to the therapeutic process itself" - so the therapeutic process is not just one of communication, but the work and struggle to get into a position to be able to communicate. This means establishing the network of relationship in which that can happen.  The term that group analysis uses for this is the matrix. And it is in the matrix that a depth of connectedness can exist where hidden, split-off and dark experience can be examined and integrated.

 

Inclusion

For 24 hours a day, all interaction and interpersonal business conducted by members of the community "belongs" to everybody – even in a day unit, everybody is held in mind twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, and what they do in any of that time matters to the community.  The expectation will be to use it and understand it as part of the material of therapy. Not in isolation, but in the real and "live" context of the interpersonal relationships all around.

 

In this way in a therapeutic community, individuals can find a very deep understanding of their place amongst others: this will be examined the whole time. People are responsible for themselves, for the others, and for the relation between the two. There is "no place to hide" as one of our members recently put it.

 

When the group is considered together, this is basic group analytic theory. Each has a different but vital contribution to make to the health of the whole. "The group constitutes the very norm from which each member may individually deviate": the aggregate of all the individual elements produces a thing with its own qualities and a whole that amounts to more than the sum of its parts.

 

Margaret Thatcher said that there was no such thing as society, Winnicott said there is no such thing as a baby, and Foulkes tells us there is no such thing as an individual: "each individual is an abstraction: determined by the world of which he forms a part". This is the opposite of an individualistic view - and the richness and variety of the web of relationships between the members, with all the rights and responsibilities that implies, is itself a creative and reparative force - in other words, the matrix again.

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Agency

In 1941 at Mill Hill Hospital, Maxwell Jones noticed that soldiers suffering from "effort syndrome" were better than the staff at helping each other. At Northfield, Bion's wartime experiment which I have already mentioned was stopped after six weeks, when he refused to own total responsibility for the disorder of others, and he was replaced by Main, Foulkes and Harold Bridger, who led a different sort of TC. These two locations are the start of therapeutic communities as we know them, and the point I want to make is that both made fundamental challenges to the nature of authority. Now they seem less strange, for in a funny bureaucratic way, some of these ideas have become mainstream – like the very welcome development of service users becoming involved in planning services. But I would urge caution about needing to acknowledge the depth of feelings that must go behind this process. I and others do believe it will slowly bring about an unthinkably significant change in the relationship between helped and helpers – but woe betide us if we treat it as a piece of tokenism, or if we forget that even helpers need help sometimes. We have to be really in it together.

 

But for therapeutic communities, this challenge was there at the beginning. It like Jung's idea that the patient's unconscious knows better where to guide the therapy than does the analyst's expertise.  It also has a strong tradition in the teachings of Harry Stack Sullivan and the interpersonal theorists, as well as Kohut, where any power imbalance is seen as authoritarian, distancing and against the establishment of a satisfactory therapeutic space.

 

This is what I’m calling the principle of agency, where authority needs to be fluid and questionable within the frame of therapy. It is not fixed but it is negotiated - and the resulting culture is one of empowerment. This goes much further than the original "flattened hierarchy" of what Rapoport called democratisation. Rather than being a fashionable idea, or a policy which is imposed on a unit, it demands a deep recognition of the potential intrinsic worth of each individual. It is not a "harmony theory" that says we simply have to find this within people - for it includes powerfully destructive, envious and hateful dynamics which exist in all of us, and are sometimes beyond reach. However, working this way does presuppose the possibility of a considerable degree of intimacy, which is an intimacy which is safe, open and healing rather than frightening, dark and abusive.

 

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Having a second try at emotional development

So Secondary Emotional Development is what we try to do by recreating these conditions in a therapeutic community. We are trying to provide a psychic space in which the things that went wrong or got stuck in primary emotional development can be re-experienced and re-worked in this artificially created place for "secondary emotional development". It can never be quite the same as first time round, or quite as good and nurturant, but we try to make it as good as we can get.

 

It can also work the other way and produce an environment which is unhealthy, or anti-therapeutic. With a culture that discourages attachment, that does not feel safe or containing, with perverse and distorted communication, unspoken rules about what is and is not admissible, and power based on arbitrary criteria.  Where human needs for secondary emotional development are being ignored or obstructed. I’m sure we can all think of places like that, for this can be as much true of a school, office, company or a hospital ward as of a family or therapeutic community: any setting where a group of people are emotionally engaged in some sort of developmental task. But these are the tings that matter.

 

So what I am talking about is not only about specialist hospital, or prison units for treating personality disorders - it is about everyday life, and struggling to try and meet needs that we all have. Which goes to prove the old therapeutic community joke: Q: “How do you tell the patients from the staff in a therapeutic community? A: The patients are the ones who get better and leave”.

 

Rex Haigh: rex.haigh@virgin.net

 

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Personal Perspectives

 

View from Broadmoor: Carole Bressington

 

Thank you so much for inviting me to offer the personal perspective from Broadmoor, and I feel very privileged to represent a fantastic group of women survivors inside and out. 

 

Getting what’s good for them?  Some certainly think so but before unwrapping this package I would like to refer you back to last year’s conference, when my friend Lin Hankinson presented a brilliant paper explaining in depth Secure Service Provision highlighting the need for Gender Sensitive Services and describing the route into secure care for the women currently in the system. I am not going to repeat her presentation but I completely endorse and I recommend it.  And if you missed it you can I believe obtain and read a copy for yourself in last year’s conference report.

 

We are collectively at a time in our history when our lives are to some extent governed by external events, listening out for the ever-changing news.  We are all waiting for the next impending crisis, and all of our futures and our lives depend on those in whom we have no choice but to trust.  It feels as if the whole of humanity is holding its breath while the few who hold the power, the power literally of life and death are even as we sit here, making ready to let loose the dogs of war. 

 

Soon, another generation of traumatized young men and women will be coming home to their families, changed forever by their experiences.  And yet again, we will have to count the cost of war for future generations.  Meanwhile, it seems that the ordinary and mundane areas of life seem to be in suspension; other issues are passing by almost without note.

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One newspaper last week described the current situation thus “Every day this week has been a Jo Moore day, when bits of bad news are being buried the moment they surface, and politicians are quietly hopeful that they’ll stay buried”.  Here are a few examples from national and local sources:

 

Thursday 6th March BBC Local radio: “Cases of sexual abuse, including rape, are reportedly widespread in Broadmoor.”

 

Friday 7th March BBC Radio 4, The Today Programme: “A management Whistleblower claims that rape and sexual abuse in a wide variety of forms is taking place inside Broadmoor.  Coincidentally, suicide rates among young women are on the increase.”

 

Saturday 8th March Meridian local news:  “Suicide and attempted suicide rates among women are on the rise, in line with sexual abuse and rape in Broadmoor”

 

Sunday 9th March: Independent on Sunday:  Headlines:  “ Macho culture blamed for plight of female patients” and “Women in Broadmoor should not be there.” Ian Johnstone, director of the British Association of Social Workers said, “…the treatment of women at Broadmoor is an outrage.  It’s almost like these people are not worth protecting.”

 

The ‘Whistleblower’, a former Director of Women’s Services in Broadmoor has exposed these practices after having worked to improve conditions for women inside Broadmoor over several years.  During her time there she abolished mixed gender activities and campaigned for women only space in educational and social settings.

 

She organized the very first women only rock concert and brought in women only bands and entertainers.  The women patients said at the time that they felt liberated.  So what happened?  What went wrong?

 

Again I’m going to refer you back to Lyn’s presentation which identifies very accurately the women in question, but essentially they represent a body of women currently in secure containment who between them have histories of the very worst examples of physical, psychological, emotional and sexual abuse ever documented.  With just a very few exceptions they have all experienced horrendous diabolical treatment at the hands of others. 

 

Moira Poitier, a psychologist who for many years worked with women in Ashworth said:

 

“There is a common existential experience shared by women of not being heard, and rarely believed, chronically frightened and overwhelmingly powerless except in outbursts of rage against property, self or others.”

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How they came to be in maximum security can be explained briefly using a composite history including all of the abuses already mentioned, from infancy in some cases, and adding on torture, social isolation and exclusion, procurement for pornography and prostitution of every variety, all of which of course we know is still taking place in our society as we speak.  These women have been the victims of terrible unspeakable crimes perpetrated against children and women of every age. 

 

They come into contact with services at the point where sooner or later their behaviour becomes problematic.  They are bounced in and out of the remit of education authorities, social services, care orders and their the failure to care.  Sometimes there might be issues around addiction, difficulties with relationships and sexuality, employment and for some the involvement of the criminal justice system and/or mental health service providers and inappropriate treatments such as ECT, and flawed medication regimes.

 

Inevitably there comes the moment when we have insult added to injury by the pathologising of our experiences. We are told we are born liars, pathologically compulsive liars.  That is closely followed by the attachment of the label of Personality Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder.  Abandon hope all ye who get this piece of stigmata because mud sticks!   Many of us who suffer the stigma and of course I include myself, completely reject it, and leave it to the people for whom it has proved most useful –politicians, psychiatrists and the media in general.  It has become a term of abuse within and without mental health and social services and says absolutely nothing positive or helpful about the person behind the label.

 

The women reach Broadmoor for a wide variety of reasons to do with systemic and legislative abuse, often having survived community psychiatric services and the rigours of secure containment in regional unit.  For some, and these are the minority, their inner distress becomes manifest by the commission of crime, most commonly Arson.  For others it is their challenging behaviour that proves most taxing for society and services to cope with. 

 

 

They are in short a bloody nuisance and a huge drain on resources.  They fail to engage with services, and so they are labelled BPD and PD and dustbinned off to Broadmoor, Rampton or Ashworth.  They are tidied away behind high walls and razor wire where nobody need concern themselves with the few, who’s joint history represents tales of horror and wickedness of a kind that not even the worst tabloid editor could imagine.  It is highly judgmental and punitive.  Take the word of one who has been there, it is a punishment for having survived thus far. 

 

They are not sentenced.  For many there has been no crime, but they will have no idea of their likely length of stay.  Sound familiar?

 

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The new unit currently under construction in Broadmoor will house up to 70 men classified as Dangerous Borderline Personality Disorder.  There has been a huge outcry in the grown up press, in the House of Commons, among professionals and human rights campaigners all of whom quite rightly condemning the legislation passed to permit this.  Detention without crime and without trial is a serious abuse of the power of the state.  Pardon my cynicism, but our society has been doing this to women since before Broadmoor was built in 1863, so what’s so special about now.

 

I know this is difficult, perhaps even hard to believe but I am going to ask you to trust me to deliver the truth.  It is unpalatable.

 

Over the years, and throughout the entire history of Broadmoor, the women patients have had a vital and important role to play in the treatment of men.  I want to tell you about the clinical disco.  Groups of up to fifteen or twenty men were brought under close escort to the women’s ward and in one of the day rooms they would be paired off with a woman patient and observed closely while they chatted over a cup of tea and a snack, and enjoyed a dance or a quick fumble. 

 

 

For the men involved this represented both therapy and reward.  They were only allowed to attend if their good behaviour that week had earned them sufficient points on the ward score, and if their previous offending behaviour had demonstrated an inability to relate safely to women.  Large and expensive programmes of research have been conducted on the nature of Broadmoor men, their offending profiles and background, their sexuality and how that impacts on their violence to women.   

 

For the women, we were just part of that programme.  Forensic and psychiatric researchers could hardly believe their good fortune.  Well just imagine the outcry had they tried to access the data any other way.  Any volunteers?

 

   

Attendance for us was of course compulsory.  We all had to take our turn on the rota regardless of age or sexual orientation.  This came under the heading of normalisation, and how normal does it sound to you?  The same situation applied across the board to include educational facilities, sports both indoor and out, integration in all areas except actual living quarters was commonplace.  

 

What does that tell you of the role of women in maximum secure hospitals then and now.  The Broadmoor Rampton and Ashworth women have been as victimized by the system as they were before they joined it.  For more than thirty years, evidence has been presented to politicians and responsible ministries, demonstrating very clearly that women were not receiving any form of treatment in Broadmoor.  Not anything.  The actual victims of male aggression were locked in with the perpetrators as an aid to risk assessment and treatment of the men.  Meanwhile, the women were cutting themselves to the bone, tying their necks with their own underwear and swallowing anything they could get their hands on from furniture polish to toilet cleaner in an attempt to escape.

 

Take the example of the clinical disco and replicate it into sporting and social pursuits, concerts and film shows.  Include with that the educational facilities, unsupervised classrooms, the library, the chapel, the gardens and workshops and the role of women in Broadmoor should become apparent.

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Sadly this is not just an historical perspective.  It isn’t even just my personal perspective, it is happening now.  Or was, until just last Thursday, when Julia Wassell sounded the alarm and Broadmoor responded in a flash by immediately cancelling their entire programme of mixed events and functions.                             

 

During my time in Broadmoor we were told that for women with PD there was no treatment, no hope, and no explanation.   We would quite probably grow out of it and when that happened we would be transferred out.  Their judgment of our readiness was entirely behaviour based and when we understood what they expected of us, in terms of behaviour, we simply colluded, it wasn’t that difficult most of the time and we understood the principles of milieu therapy.  Prolonged and aggravated abuse depends upon the collusion of the victim.   

 

Good personal management and emotional control, allied to observed acceptable behaviour permitted slow progress through the system.  Occasionally and for some it became too difficult.  We all of us experience stress and develop ways of dealing with it but many of us lacked the skills or vocabulary, or opportunity to explain or describe the worst of our internal pain and grief.  Add to that the fact that nobody wanted to hear it. I am both heartened and depressed by recent advances in neuropsychiatry.  Brain scans confirm what we have always known, the difference is that now we might be believed, because doctors just love something with a bit of science attached. 

 

 

Life for women in Broadmoor has changed since my time there.  One of the changes is that a small number of women are now being offered therapy, until quite recently the only treatment was containment.  It is only available to a very few and it isn’t always appropriate, and the women have no choice of therapist or the therapist gender, and in some cases it is almost entirely cosmetic.  In recent years one woman was made to attend family therapy with the father who had been her abuser.  I think he found it helpful.  Another could only communicate with her therapist by writing notes to him, because she was too humiliated to speak the language of abuse to a man.  I’m sorry to tell you that both of those women ended their lives in Broadmoor

 

What this tells us about the Broadmoor women is that they are still highly vulnerable in a system entirely designed to meet the needs of men, many of whom are violent and potentially very dangerous, and not just for the women, some of whom are mothers. 

 

Some men are carefully building relationships with women who have children to return to.   The men are protected by rules of confidentiality, and the women have no way of knowing why the men are in Broadmoor.  Their interests are protected.  Nobody is suggesting that children visiting their mothers are at risk, because Broadmoor took immediate steps after the second Ashworth enquiry, but the dangers are still very real.

 

We are getting to the beginning of the end of this terrible state sanctioned systemic and systematic abuse of women, and the courage of Julia Wassell will have an important part to play because for the first time one of their own side, and in a senior post, has spoken out.  They did everything possible to prevent it in the same way they tried everything to prevent the reforms she introduced while she worked there. 

 

I can’t jeopardize her current situation by including too much detail, but she was driven out of her job by the same bullies who have a great deal invested in maintaining the status quo.  Not only their jobs, and research grants, but subsidized housing, fantastic sports and social provision and very good pay in a beautiful corner of England in which to raise their children in order that they too can follow the family tradition of going up the hill to work with the loonies.

A history and culture stretching back for a hundred and forty years is finally coming to an end, for the women at least.

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The strategy is written.  The recommendations are going to be followed and the women are moving out but don’t get too excited, it may well be another three to four years before provision is available for all of them.  There are still bridges to cross and units to build, and we still have people with a vested interest in keeping abused women behind the razor wire for a bit longer, and we are still looking for clarity in the areas of Rampton and Ashworth.

So did we get what was good for us?   I would like to leave you with a few thoughts about some very precious and special women. There have been women in Broadmoor for 140 years and many will never leave.   We have lost so many wonderful lovely gifted and creative women of all ages, and far too many have dropped exhausted, too filled with grief, too tortured by their dreams and nightmares to carry on without hope of rescue.  Young for the most part and altogether magnificent, for having managed to go so far along the road without support.  They might become the subject of public debate only now that the suicide rates are being talked about. Funerals and inquests are held in private inside Broadmoor. The patient’s cemetery is behind bars. They deserved better.    Thank you.      

 

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Introduction to Karl by Bob Johnson

 

introduction

 

Bob: I had intended to introduce a prisoner at this point. He came to the conference last year and he is due to be released in about three weeks time. He is, at the moment, on unescorted leave to his home in the south of England from the prison in Scotland. We asked the prison governor about six months ago for permission for him to attend. He said “No”. 

 

What I want to do instead is to show you an eight minute video we took of Karl last year. He speaks of his experience and it covers some of the issues that we have heard recounted here today, very clearly.

 

He has a very positive and optimistic message. I shall play a short extract and then I shall stop it for discussion.

 

Video of Karl from 2002 Conference.

 

Bob:   I think I’ll interrupt it there because we are rather pressed for time, but you can see there: he describes it very clearly. He had this terror as a consequence of the abuse that he could not discuss or deal with in any way. He was given the opportunity almost, as it were, by mistake. At least it wasn’t in the ordinary way and he started looking at his childhood, that he had forgotten - not forgotten in the ordinary sense, but that he had repressed. It was just too frightening for him.

 

I became involved because I was asked to write a medical report on him for the tribunal system in Scotland. This is actually a consequence of the European legislation which is having a very benign effect. I’m sorry that Karl couldn’t come but, hopefully, we shall have him with us next year because he is such a dynamic, positive and optimistic speaker as you can see.

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Nada, would you like to come up and say a few words for us?

 

Nada Dobre

 

Nada:  I need some lessons to learn how to speak in front of so many people – so forgive me if I am not a very good speaker. I don’t know if you know my history: it is very similar to the last speaker. I was terrified, I was traumatised by my childhood. My dad didn’t want me and he hit me, he bullied me. He bullied my mum because she produced a daughter instead of a son. He beat my mother and he beat all of us. It’s a long story.  He was an army officer. He put a gun in front of my face. On a couple of occasions I couldn’t hear for three months. He pointed this gun at me. He had this fixation. He didn’t want me.

I grew up and I was traumatised, I didn’t understand – “Why was I angry? – Why was I violent?”  I couldn’t work, couldn’t relate to men. I had a lot of problems, I had a lot of fears, a lot of suicide thoughts. Nobody in the family had any kind of mental illness so I couldn’t understand my fear – where it was coming from – I knew it but I didn’t want to deal with the childhood  problems, of the victimisation my dad gave me.

 

I had a lot of treatment over the years. It didn’t help. It dealt with the stuff – what happened to me? - Why was I violent? – Why was I trying to hurt myself? – Why was I trying to kill myself? – all of this. We didn’t try to understand. I’ll tell you what I mean. On a couple of occasions the psychiatrist accused me of lying and pretending about everything that had happened! On a second occasion I was asked to punch a bag. That produced a lot of violence. I wanted to punch his face! (laughter). I knew that this didn’t happen. I knew that I would be in hospital. I would have been sectioned. I knew that so I didn’t do that.

I never felt that I was mentally ill. I felt in my heart and my soul that something was wrong. I didn’t know that there was this box and I ended up with lots of problems.

 

Finally, in 1995, I met this gentleman, Dr Bob Johnson. To me he is a gentleman (turning and smiling to Bob). He showed his humanity, his understanding of my past and I told him what had happened to me. On our second meeting, I spoke about my past and he sort of led me to an understanding of my past, of where my anger, my violence and my suicide thoughts were coming from. He connected me with my father, with the violence and the abuse of me, the blood and the violence and everything else. I learned that I should separate myself from the past. In effect, what he was doing was giving me the tools with which I could have a relationship with my past, with myself. The relationship with my past was one thing but the relationship with myself was quite another. I learned this from Dr Johnson. I had buried the past.

 

I was able to deal with it, to understand where my violence was coming from: I cut the umbilical cord that still held me in my past. When I realised this, when I understood where my behaviour was coming from, I realised that I am a human being, that I am not violent! Since then I have opened a business. I am a personal trainer. I have studied some more.

 

Last year I broke my arm. I closed the business. I didn’t panic. I didn’t traumatise myself! I was cool and calm and collected. I picked myself up. I am now qualified Pilates teacher. I have found a profession I like. My emotional health is improving all the time. I feel that I can do anything and everything with the knowledge that I have now. That today, I am a person in my own right, that I can be anything I want to be, that I shall be what I want to be.

 

Applause.

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Bob Johnson:
 

Thank you very much Nada. Wonderful! What I think is so important about these meetings that we have: the input in the morning sessions from experts, discussion of the history and the background and then the input from people who have experienced these feelings and have found a way through. Nada speaking of the tools I gave her– I gave her a pair of scissors and she would cut through the umbilical cord. The model I work with contains so many echoes of what we have heard this morning. I can summarise it with the phrase:

 

“Parenting keeps infants alive and adults insane”

 

What that means is that, as an in infant, you need sound attachment. Your parents are your life support system. Both parents have two jobs:

 

To bring the child up and to bring the child up to be independent.

 

If, in adulthood, you are still surviving on childhood infantile strategies (as you are always bound to do if you have had an unsound attachment – a traumatic childhood as Nada described) then you are going to have  childhood tantrums, childhood frustrations and childhood violence. It’s a question of transferring your life support systems from those childhood patterns (where you are looking to others to look after you) to yourself, which is as Nada said, ‘to have a relationship with herself’, that is, being an adult and solving your own problems. Not in isolation of course, but with mutual emotional support, rather than looking around to find someone who can solve your problems for you.

This pattern of infantile emotional strategies in adult life is one that took me a long time to uncover because the individual, as you saw with Karl, as Karl confirmed, does not want to discuss, does not want to look at the painful items. If you traumatise the child, the child says “This is not happening to me” They put the lid on the box. They don’t want to look. It’s dangerous to look. The child has learned that the abuse will recur if you look, so the child comes into adult life  and doesn’t look. They need the sort of care and support that we have heard about and they need a proactive discussion. I will now show a couple of clips of  a video I made which show a man called Tony who is 41. He has spent his life burgling because the system ‘owes him a living’. He starts off by saying that he was put into care at three months. He took half an hour to tell me the story – half an hour recounting the most horrendous abuse in the care system, that he was moved from care home to care home. There was sexual abuse all sorts of physical abuse.

 

However, this is an optimistic story. I shall show you the clips where I suggest to him that he no longer needs to bind himself to his maternal yearning, that he needs to abandon this infantile yearning for his mother, that he needs to be more self reliant. I want to show you how I suggest that to him and how the process works.

 

(End of morning session).

 

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Afternoon Session.

 

Dr Bob Johnson ‘issues in Personality Disorder

 

 
 

 

Bob Johnson Co-founder of the James Nayler Foundation.  Consultant psychiatrist, and specialist in the treatment of severe Personality Disorders.    He has worked in Parkhurst Prison and Ashworth Maximum Security Hospital.  

Author of  “Emotional Health” published by JNF,

 

Bob: I had intended to introduce a prisoner at this point. He came to the conference last year and he is due to be released in about three weeks time. He is, at the moment, on unescorted leave to his home in the south of England from the prison in Scotland. We asked the prison governor about six months ago for permission for him to attend. He said “No”. 

 

What I want to do instead is to show you an eight minute video we took of Karl last year. He speaks of his experience and it covers some of the issues

 

(See Appendix for a full transcript of Karl’s experience)

 

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Bob introduces the afternoon session

 

 

 

Bob:  Good afternoon everyone just let me say that we shall begin this session with some video clips for the first half hour then we are going to have the panelists up here and take questions from the floor.

 

 

Speaking of Truth, Trust and Consent. Consent is the cement that holds the other parts of the triad together. We are not pieces of wood, we operate by consent.

 

Truth is your understanding of reality, today’s reality.

 

What is the truth today? Today’s truth, as I was saying at the close of the morning session, is that we are adults. We need to operate with adult strategies. In order to do that we have to be educated. We have

to learn to leave behind the trauma that freezes us

so often at a particular age.

 

 

Trust. Trust is the ability to rely on someone else. It’s a very elemental emotion. You can’t buy it, you have to both earn and learn it. If you haven’t earned and learned it, if you haven’t got trust, then you are vulnerable. We belong to a species where our very life depends on trust. Truth, Trust and Consent. Consent was taught to me by the murderers that I treated in Parkhurst. The prison service says that you must coerce these people so that they don’t hit each other. That’s quite wrong! We work with them, we work with them by consent.  If we don’t work with them by consent then we are building on sand. We live in a coercive society. Lip service is paid to consent. In a democracy, we give consent to those who rule. The consent is absolutely critical.

 

Now I am going to show you some clips of Tony. The intention behind consent, the notion of intent is something that contemporary psychiatry omits. They try to live in a mechanical world. To live in a mechanical world is very boring. Nobody wants to be irrational. Now I have my definition of irrationality: it is that it comes from infancy. The logic is sound, but the emotions are relevant to a different context, to a different time. Now there is a twenty four year old in Parkhurst whose aim is to become a serial killer. He says “If I have my tantrums as a four year old, I smash my foot on the floor. If I have my tantrums as a twenty four year old, somebody dies”. It’s the same tantrum! As an adult he could have learned to achieve what he needed to achieve without a tantrum. The irrationality is the hidden part. Now this is the crucial bit. We all start very small and very young. All infants are helplessly dependent but they are startlingly aware. This is where the whole body of psychiatry has gone wrong.

 

A picture of a new born infant appears on the screen.

 

Here we have Ethan,  he was born as you see in December 1999. There he is (referring to the screen), he is twenty seconds old. There’s the evidence: he’s smiling. Here he is again: he is seventeen minutes old. The man on the left is looking at Ethan and he is sticking his tongue out. Ethan is looking at this face and he sticks his tongue out too! He’s seventeen minutes old! Ethan’s mind is already absorbing. He can’t discuss, he can’t verbalise, but he is already observing and learning. He is learning social rules. This curious face nearby has stuck out his tongue so he responds.

Because all human infants are paraplegic and are totally helpless – if they are left, they are dead. So all infants require sound parental attachment. If the attachment is robust, reliable, trustworthy, consensual, truthful and realistic: then if you escape something traumatic - even if you break a leg, or if someone dies, if you have sound, good, reliable attachment then the effects  are ephemeral. If, on the other hand, the attachment is not sound, the consequences are not so much catastrophic, as infantile.

 

I want to look at some instances of this in my psychiatric practise. This is a tale of two cases.

Case A: a leg disease, your leg won’t do what you want. A woman goes to the doctor and she says “My leg won’t work”. As a doctor confronted with such a case, you can expect moderate to mild satisfaction. The doctor enjoys the challenge, works out why the leg won’t work and off you go. No problem at all. Case B, a mind disease. Your mind doesn’t do what you want. You go to the doctor and the doctor says: “It’s in your genes. I’m sorry, it’s a clockwork universe, there’s nothing I can do”.  You feel trapped. There’s nothing you can do. The doctor’s satisfaction is nil. There are vacancies for 388 consultant psychiatric posts because there is, for the reasons outlined with case B, no interaction. Psychiatry is the most fascinating occupation that I can possibly imagine. I love it! I enjoy it! I am a contradiction in terms – a happy psychiatrist! (laughter). I believe this because I engage with another human being. The sort of engaging that I do (as you heard with Nada) is that I challenge them. I ask them, “Do you need your mother? How old are you?” This is something that I have already covered in my book, “Emotional Health” .

 

The psychiatric text called DSM IV the “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Issue IV” i.e. edition four issued in 1994, and prior to that the DSM III from 1980, specifically says “ We are not interested in causative factors.” They are not interested in engaging with human beings. The DSM IV is a very thick book (Bob holds up a copy to illustrate) In October, I was invited to speak at a conference in New Jersey and a friend of mine obtained a copy for me, she knew what I was going to do, I was going to hold the book up and say that it was crap!  What it actually is, is it’s descriptive. You go through DSM IV and you find symptoms. Thousands of symptoms! I am interested in why.

 

                                                     

Really, the breakthrough that I made was to do with the difference between an adult and an infant. An infant clings and tries to attach. The parent has two jobs: one is to allow the clinging and the attachment whilst, simultaneously, encouraging the individual to learn to stand on their own two feet.

 

I’m going to show you some clips of Tony which illustrate what can go wrong if this doesn’t happen.

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He describes to begin with, what the problem is:

 

(1st Video clip) ….

 

Tony:   When I was in Durham prison I asked to see a listener.

 

Bob:     Oh yes I remember that.

 

Tony:   I said to the listener, I told him the basic problem. I said, “Why do I keep coming back inside? What I want is a normal life”. He said that it was me that was, he said it was my fault. I thought, “No! - it’s not my fault, it’s their fault, they did it!” and I had a chat with the minister and he said “You are pressing the self destruct button all the time”.

 

Bob:     I wonder why, eh? I wonder why?

 

Tony:   But I wonder why! How do you deal with it?

 

(End of first clip)

 

Bob: He was abandoned at the age of three months and then his mother “materialised” when he was 12 with disastrous consequences. He had problems with the stepfather, ran away and was living on the streets. Here he is at the age of 41. Quite a long and horrendous history. He repeatedly talked to people about it. But I had a different take on all of this. I am proactive. I regard myself as an emotional educator. I hear of this welter of abuse and torture  that he has experienced coming from him. He wants compensation, his life is ruined, he doesn’t trust anybody. I made my intervention, a bit later than usual, about thirty five minutes in. What I suggested to him was that he did not need his mother. Now this had never occurred to him, he had never been introduced to this idea.

 

(2nd Video clip)

 

Bob:     Well, that’s the key!  This is my trade! This is what I do all the time! We start with your parents. How do you feel about them?

 

Tony:   Resentful.

 

Bob:     Who were you first angry with?

 

Tony;    My mum.

 

Bob:     You are, aren’t you?

 

Tony:    Yeah.

 

Bob:      What do you think about that?  Should you be?

 

Tony:     (Pause) Because of things like say my dad used to hit my mum and things like that. Saying you couldn’t look after me. But one of my uncles said that she tried to help me when I was little.

 

Bob:       Let’s just go back. You are angry with your mother for not looking after you. Are you sure?

 

Tony:      Yeah.

 

Bob:     The thing is, you are very small. You are looking for your parents, to look after you. They are your life support system. She leaves you at three months, is that right?

 

Tony:     Yeah.

 

Bob:       And that fills you with rage. When you get to eighteen, twenty one, you should be on an even footing, but what’s happening is: she’s still looking after you at the age of eighteen. Does that make sense? Describe it, if it makes sense.

 

Tony:     Yeah. In the normal family situation, I would imagine, you are with the parents and you get love, you have your arguments, but that’s just family life. By the time they are eighteen they are walking away from it. They say, “I still love you and I still know you are there for me when I am in trouble and when I need you, but no thank you, I am making my own way in life now.”

 

Bob:      The tragedy is you haven’t had a steady infancy to get independence in adult life! In a situation like yours, where infancy was rocky, you are still clinging on!  But you don’t need to at the age of twenty one. You have to cut the link between yourself and your mother. Can you do that?

 

Tony:    Yeah.

 

Bob:      Can you? Are you sure?

 

Tony:    Yeah.

 

Bob:     “Ta-ra mother. I don’t want to see you again.” Can you say that?

 

Tony:    Pauses. Raises hands to shoulder height. (Thinking how to say it)

 

Bob:     Do you see what I am saying? What am I saying first? - before you answer the question.

 

Tony:    To completely go. This is how I felt because of this, because of that. It’s all my mum’s fault. Cut the link and say “Right mum, this was in the past. This is what’s gonna happen now.”

 

Bob:      That’s right. You need to say “I don’t need you mum!” Can you say that? Off you go! Sit her over there and say “Hello mum, I don’t need you!”

 

Tony:    Hello mum, I don’t need you.

 

Bob:      Do you believe that?

 

Tony:    Yeah.

 

Bob:     Are you sure?

 

Tony:   Positive!

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Bob:     Is that a new idea for you, or not?

 

Tony:   Yeah.

 

Bob:    What are you going to do about it? What am I suggesting to you?

 

Tony:   To free myself.

 

Bob:    Can you do it?

 

Tony:   Yeah.

 

Bob:     Can you tell me why you didn’t do it before?

 

Tony:   I didn’t want to let go of it.

 

Bob:    Didn’t want to let go of mum! Say it!

 

Tony:   I didn’t want to let go of my mum.

 

Bob:    It’s true isn’t it? Now, I’ve suggested it to you. Do you think it’s a good idea? It hasn’t occurred to you before has it? Nobody has said.

 

Tony:   Yeah. (Starting to smile).

 

Bob:     So what’s the disadvantage of not letting go of mum?

 

Tony:    All the bad moments are staying with me.

 

Bob:     And there’s no way out! You need someone outside, to talk with you, which you’re doing today, and they say something to you that is quite outrageous, in one sense, “Say goodbye to mum”.  “But I’ve been looking for her all my life!”  you say. That’s wrong! You’ll do better without your mum. Do you agree with that?

 

Tony:     Yeah.

 

Bob:     Why is that?

 

Tony:    Because when you are small, you need parenting. You need people to look after you and make decisions for you. When you are older, er, you get your own ideas. You can’t live somebody else’s life. How they want you to live is different to how you want to live. It’s different to how they think you should live.

 

Bob:    Are you are still going back to your mother in your mind?

 

Tony:   Yeah, everything I do stems from my mother.

 

Bob:     Absolutely right! What’s changing about that? How can you change that?

 

Tony:   The reason I want, personally to change it, and this is the reason why I told my solicitor what I told her, and because of what that listener said in Durham, is because I am sick of pressing the self destruct button.

 

Bob:    Why do you self destruct?

 

Tony:   I think it’s because I’ve never ever known any other way out but to self destruct.

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Bob:    Wait. Self destruct is anger turned to you. It should be turned to somebody else. Who should it be turned at?

 

Tony:    My parents.

 

Bob:      Especially your mum. What’s the remedy?

 

Tony:    Not to bother at all! (Begins to smile and relax) I like it!

 

Bob:      You do, don’t you? (they laugh together) So what have you learned this afternoon?

 

Tony:     (Smiling) I don’t have to live with my past.

 

Bob:     Listen to you!

 

Tony:    I don’t have to live my future by my past. I can live with it instead of living against it or whatever it is I’ve been doing.

 

I shall stop it there. He is smiling for the first time. He’s happy. There he says it, he’s glad. It’s just astonishing! In spite of that, Tony has now got in his mind a blue print for sorting out his emotions. He can in fact free himself. There’s a bit in this next clip that I want to show you where we actually discuss how much he needs or rather doesn’t need his mother.

 

(3rd Video clip)

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Bob:   Self destruct, you see, it’s so important to understand where it comes from and what to do. When it comes to your mind, say no! – I am angry with my mother and the anger is out of date. Say that.

 

Tony:  The anger is out of date and I’m not with my mother.

 

Bob:   You’re not, are you?

 

Tony:  No.

 

Bob:   What do you think about that?

 

Tony:  I’m glad.

 

Bob:  You are, aren’t you?

 

Tony: Yeah.

 

Bob:  You’re cheerful! You didn’t expect that, did you?

 

Tony: No.

 

Bob:   So how would you describe what we have been talking about this afternoon?

 

Tony:  Er. Relieving. Understanding. Able to understand it. To explain the reason why I tell my solicitor and the reason why I want to get it out of my system is because I know I’ve come to it in my head through what that listener said is that I’m not gonna get any compensation. I’m not gonna get a sorry off the social services…

 

Bob:   Or off you’re mum!

 

Tony:  Or off my mum.

 

Bob:   That’s it, isn’t it?

 

Tony:  They’re never gonna love me the way I’ve been wanting to be loved and to have the family and the care that I pine for. The only person that can do that is myself.

 

Bob:   And I’ll tell you something! All this love you pine for, you don’t need!

 

Tony:  All this love I pine for I don’t need.

 

Bob:   Why not?

 

Tony:  Because I’ve got myself.

 

Bob:   How old are you?

 

Tony:  41.

 

Bob:   Don’t forget that! That’s the most important question I ask anybody – How old are you?

 

Tony:  Yeah.

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Bob:   I don’t need it because I’m 41. You needed it when you were small and that’s a fact! That’s the reality! The point is that you were programmed to need it.

 

Tony:  All the time people have been like, I’ve been given a probation officer and I expected them to make everything better and say, look, we have destroyed your life, Tony now we’ll make it better. But it doesn’t happen, it’s never gonna happen.

 

Bob:   And does that matter?

 

Tony:  Yeah! It does matter!

 

Bob:   What’s the answer then?

 

Tony:  Really, I don’t need a probation officer. I’ve had 41 years of probation officers! I need my own love. I need to get it into my head that I don’t need anybody else. I don’t need a wife, I don’t need a mum, I don’t need children. I used to think I need another child to replace and to love and then I talked to a bereavement counsellor and they told me that I didn’t need another child. I was yearning for another child because I wanted a replacement, I wanted something to love.

 

Bob:   You wanted a replacement?

 

Tony:   I wanted a replacement for my mother. I don’t need my mother.

 

Bob:   Are you sure?

 

Tony:  Yeah.

 

Bob:   Why don’t you need her?

 

Tony:  I’m happy without her.

 

Bob:   You really don’t need her, do you? How do you feel?

 

Tony:  (Smiling broadly by now) Good.

 

Bob:   You do, don’t you? You didn’t expect that, did you?

 

Tony:  No.

 

Bob:   What did you expect?

 

Tony:  I expected someone just to say “Yeah, you’ve had a bad life, but that’s just life!” Because, probation officers in the past, I’ve told them things but not like what I’ve told you. They just say “Well, it wouldn’t happen these days. It happened then and that’s it”. That’s been their cure! I’ve gone along with it so long and it’s been in my head and I’ve been trying to push it out and it doesn’t matter what I do and where I go, at the end of the day or the beginning of the day (gesturing with his hands around his head and then pushing them into his head as if it is imploding) this problem has been in my head and it’s just sent me off the rails again.

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Bob:   So what is the problem?

 

Tony:  The problem’s gone!

 

Bob:   What’s the problem that has gone?

 

Tony:  My mum.

 

Bob:   (Laughing) You didn’t think that did you?

 

Tony:  No.

 

Bob:   How did you get rid of her?

 

Tony:  I just realised that I don’t need my mum! And I’ve realised (beginning to laugh out loud) that I’ve never really had a mum anyway! So I don’t know how I’ve missed her really. Laughing (together with Bob). It’s weird!

 

Bob:   You never had a mum?

 

Tony:  No.

 

Bob:   And now you don’t need one? It’s weird that isn’t it?

 

Tony:  Yeah!

 

Bob:   Don’t forget that will you?

 

Tony:  No. Never.

 

(End of clip.)

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There we go. The mum that he has got rid of, and we must be quite clear about this, is a figment in his head. (In other words he wasn’t allowed, he wasn’t encouraged, he didn’t have permission, he didn’t have his own consent to change it). You can see the sort of personality change taking place in thirty minutes. He doesn’t need mum. When he feels secure, as he was there with me, he felt he could trust me, the truth was that he never really had a mum! His first mum gives him away at three months. He had a series of part satisfactory or unsatisfactory, temporary mums. To the infant the solution to these problems comes from mum. He had a deep yearning for a mum, which was what he needed. That was true – when he was small. Nobody sat down  and said “Well, let’s have a look at this yearning that you have got in there, this craving for maternal or parental security and let’s look at it.” You can see why I enjoy my work! Because when you get it right, there is a tremendous glow, a tremendous beam of joy. He’s not a particularly articulate man. You can see that I was probing him to see how secure this idea was in his head. I asked him to repeat it, to tell me what this idea was, what it was we were talking about. I wanted to show, in the first few clips, that it takes time. What I asked him to do, and I hope you can see that, was, I asked him to make a leap, a leap of security, a leap of life support systems. These are not trivial matters, these are very deep matters. To take a leap from the old pattern, which is looking backwards to an unsatisfactory, parental model to a more secure, adult model: where he could relate, for the first time in his life!  Because prior to this exploration, he thought of himself as small, as impotent, as infantile, as helpless; and he makes a transition. That’s the transition I’m looking for all the time. It’s called emotional maturation, it’s growing up emotionally. It is so close to this secondary emotional development that we heard about this morning. You get infantile emotional development and then the priority of the infant is a sound attachment, for survival purposes. That’s the purpose of the infant’s emotional strategies and the infant’s emotional strategies are extremely powerful because it is a matter of life and death! To get left “on a mountainside” as an infant and that’s it! Then there is the transition through to adult life where your emotional survival, your survival in general, reverts to you. You are now the adult, you are in charge of yourself. You are a social animal so you learn how to relate to other human beings. You learn how to work, you learn how to be sociable, you learn how to trust. That leads to Truth and to Consent. One is working as a mutual, equal and consenting partner. This is the ideal of democracy. It’s the only stable situation. They are not fathers or parental figures, they are not emperors or kings. They are just human beings. We consent to work together. That is the objective.

 

Thank you for listening. I shall now ask the speakers to come on to the platform and we shall take questions from the floor.

 

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Questions for the Panel

 

Question: Where do you start with prevention?

 

Bob:  Excellent question! I would start in infancy. I would take the infant and, as  soon as they can talk, I would seek their consent, you hear such terrible things being said in what passes for child rearing. “You wait till I get you home! I’ll murder you when you get home!”. There’s a coercive pattern there. As we saw with Ethan, even at seventeen minutes old, he sticks his tongue out, he is responding to the world around him. The old pattern was the Paterfamilias, “I’m your father!  Shut up!”, or whatever it’s going to be … little children are “seen and not heard” that’s the most dire prescription for mental illness that I‘ve ever heard! The dialogue starts in infancy, in infant schools. They are much better now than they were. The independence and the self reliance starts as soon as the child develops locomotive abilities, when the child begins to walk. It’s an attitude of mind. Children – infants can be very noisy, smelly and very tiring. But they are actually mini human beings! They have a mind (they have an adult mind in many ways)  and they need talking to, they need to be related to and encouraged.

I’ll hand over to the rest of the panel.

 

Rex: Let me mention here something to be found in the Personality Disorder document. There’s a paragraph there that says that “Facilities should be set up for 15 – 25 year olds”,  because that is a very important age range, it’s before people really get stuck into the adult mental health system when there’s still time to do something flexible enough to make a difference. There are two or three Therapeutic Communities that have been set up. There is one in Cambridge and there will be another one in Luton dealing with just that age group, because it is generally perceived as good to intervene during just that period, before they can become, as it were, set in their ways. I think that’s a really exciting prospect. The principles are much the same. I think that we have to be even clearer on the boundaries.

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Question: I don’t think it’s so much a question but I am a bit confused, people do need parents, so do you think you could explain a bit more about.

 

Bob:  We have to put a caveat in there! I’m not against parents (smiling). They are in fact quite important people! But, as I say, they have two important jobs: one is to bring you up and the other is to bring you up to be independent. You’ll have noticed, and I’ll emphasise it if you didn’t, that when I started to press Tony on this question, saying, “Please, I’m inviting you to cut your link with your mother” I was very soft on him, I said, “take your time, I don’t want to rush you!” because it’s very critical. Everyone needs emotional support. That’s absolutely correct. You need people who can love you. You need people who can look out for you. This is most important. It requires clarification. Parents have an almost impossible job. It’s a very important and difficult job. There’s a lot of anxiety about what is happening to the child. The parent wants to do what’s best for the child, just as the child wants what’s best for the parent. The difficulty is if the parent is over protective or if, as in Tony’s case, the parent is non existent, then the parent child bond is distorted. When people come to me for help, generally, they are well in to adult life and, as you saw with Tony, he was looking for somebody to mother him. Somebody to look after him. Now the skill, and it sometimes requires a high level of expertise to find a fault line between the emotional demands that are perfectly legitimate for any human being and that of wanting somebody to mother you, of somebody parenting you, who is going to (say) brush your teeth for you! You have to be so careful! The dilemma is very easily described for a toddler. If you have a toddler and you are teaching the toddler to walk, you hold the toddlers hand and you walk along. Everybody is happy because you are holding the child’s hand and he can’t fall down. There comes a time when you have to let go of that hand. If you don’t then the child will never walk. As soon as you do let go of the hand all the anxieties arise. Is he going to fall over? Is she going to crash her head against a stone? You are responsible. That is a constant parental dilemma. It’s not an easy situation, but it can be resolved – with dialogue and support. The object at the other end is that we are all adults. The parents are adults, I am an adult.

 

Elie: I think it’s very difficult to generalise about these things. For a lot of the people I have seen over the years, their model of mothering or parenting has been so different and so extreme in many ways. It’s not that they don’t need it. I think the hardest thing for all of us as human beings at any stage, is to let go of things that we have never had. The hope. The yearning. One day I will get that approval. One day I will have that relationship. If I do this they are going to love me. People spend years, they spend decades: into their sixties, all the way through their lives trying to behave in ways to achieve something that isn’t going to happen. Sometimes it is just a matter of recognising that it isn’t going to happen.

 

Rex: I almost agree with Bob, but not completely. I think that it comes and goes for all of us. I don’t think that anyone is never completely adult or ever not in someway a child. We all have that neediness that comes and goes. Sometimes we need infantile securities. Sometimes we are stressed or we have lost something important. We need the infantile securities so that for the rest of the time we can feel the adult independence. It’s not a simple yes or no, black or white sort of thing. It’s part of that to-ing and fro-ing  of development as I see it. I like the point about the things that you have never had. I think that is terribly important.

 

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Nada: I believe respect and communication should always be there for you whether as a child or an adult.

 

Floor:  One of the hardest things I ever did was to give up the yearning for the love from my mother and to recognise that I never would have it. I achieved that and it gave me my freedom to be myself. I invented people who would be my aunts and my grandmothers and people like that – and it worked.

 

Bob: Yes, I think that’s what we saw there in the clip. Tony had this deep yearning for his mum and she was never there for him. The look of joy that he had on his face when he realised this indicates that something in the way that he looks at things has undergone a serious change. Everybody needs a point of attachment. In infancy that is a powerful parent. As an adult it is a wide social network of attachment. Everybody needs attachment.

 

Question: How do you deal with a situation of the damaged child still in need of a parent? How does your model operate in those circumstances? I work with children between the ages of 8 and 12 who are coming from such circumstances, they still need a parent to take care of them, what would be the best approach?

 

Bob: This is one of the most difficult questions that keeps coming up, it’s one of the issues we hear very much, in calls received by the JNF. For example, one caller told us that he adopted his son when he was five years old. The child was very damaged by that time and was giving his adoptive parents a great deal of trouble. He is now twelve years old. The difficulty is communicating, as Nada said, respect and stability. These children have  no stability. They have learned, very deeply, that all human beings are powerful human beings, dangerous human beings and you have to ‘weary’ them through that and it’s very challenging, it’s very debilitating. One of the people on the platform a couple of years ago was adopted. I remember a conversation that I had with him. He used to get very angry with his adoptive mother because he felt safe to do so. He felt safe to express the very real anger that he felt toward his real mother for not being there for him. It can get very tangled. Like all human beings we need stability, security, reliability and trust in the people around us. That’s often the last thing, when we are disturbed, that we are going to produce. When we are disturbed we produce more and more destruction, more and more unpleasantness and aggression. It wears people out. What one actually needs is comfort. Everyone needs comfort.

 

Elie:  I don’t really know that we know, on one level. I think the basic tenets are the same regardless of who you are working with, in terms of compassion, in terms of patience, in terms of stability, all of those things. I think that we have today, generations of children who have had interventions, and for whom we don’t yet know what the outcomes are going to be. We have a whole generation of children now who have had interventions when they have been abused. That never used to happen before. We know the outcomes for those people who suffered in silence, but we don’t really know what intervention does in these cases. The outcomes don’t look very good at the moment but then I don’t think the interventions that take place are typically that good anyway. But at least they are not suffering in silence! At least there is some progress!

 

Rex: There is one therapeutic community that tries to do something here. Does anybody here know the Cotswold community? They take in boys between the ages of 5 and 9. They re-parent these children, to the level of giving them a glass of milk and a biscuit before they go to bed and going through basic routines like cleaning their teeth with the new arrivals. They thoroughly re-parent them. They attempt to provide the important kinds of experience that the children never had, the love and care that they didn’t receive from their parents. In my view, the earlier this intervention occurs the better. One may feel more hopeful for the children when intervention is early, since it can occur before they can get set in their ways.

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Questioner: What I have actually tried to tell them is that the big people who have been unkind to them are very damaged people. The children are OK and that what has happened to them isn’t their fault. The children think that they are responsible and they blame themselves.

 

Question: I think I may possibly be straying from the subject but I wonder if the panel have any comments about emotional senility rather than emotional maturity and about the sort of role reversal that comes about in the elderly when their deprivation would seem to increase.

 

Bob:  If I can tell a little personal story (because it’s the one I know best) as it were. My parents were Edwardian. They were very, very anxious. My father was shelled by Kaiser Wilhelm II when he was four years old. The shells flew over his house, he was living in Scarborough. He had this underlying anxiety all his life. My mother came from a very large and powerful family, she is one of seven daughters. I had occasional glimpses of what her family life must have been like among these daughters. To my parents, children were regarded as a bit of a problem. They didn’t trust us. We moved to York, permanently. Eventually, my parents became more and more infirm mentally and physically. Over the years established a new relationship in which, for the first time, they were trusting us. It was a blessing really, for us, because there was a change. Their children had been a pain, you didn’t discuss the important things. I watched them both as their horizons diminished. But they realised that we were reliable, that we actually could look after them and that they could begin to lean on us, which I don’t think they had ever done. That’s my personal story, but it shows that if you can provide stability and reliability you can sometimes bring about an improvement.

 

Carole: That’s a really interesting and thought provoking question. I have recently been blessed to go back to my home town to take care of two ageing aunts. I haven’t much experience of being around old people. In the last two years, they had both become widowed. They’ve seen their children grow up and move away. They had to face the prospect of living the rest of their lives alone. Last year one of them died and there was only one left. We have been talking a lot about how she feels as an older person, how it’s almost as though she has no right, as an older person, to an emotional life. Because she is older, she should expect bereavement, she should expect to be widowed. I keep telling her that she is going to live longer than anybody else. You have to prepare yourself to be alone. She doesn’t know how to go about it and how to find some sense of who she is now in the face of all the changes that have happened in her life. Added to this, she has to deal with the ageing process itself. We are dealing here with issues of failing eyesight, deafness, decreased mobility. But, in the face of the loneliness that she is experiencing, nobody seems to allow her to experience that. I don’t know if this connects to your question but there seems to be a denial of the fact that older people have the right to life experience at an appreciable level of intensity of emotions, as, say younger people do.

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Rex: I have one example that perhaps I can add. One of our students, who was a middle aged woman, for her research project, ran a group for elderly people with severe dementia. What she found was that, although they were unable to conduct a normal conversation, they were able to connect, emotionally with one another. They found much value in company and conversation with one another. Even if it sounded incoherent, there was still something very human going on. There was something that hadn’t been lost, something that couldn’t be denied in the fact that they could still interact and do something meaningful together.

 

Question:  I don’t have an enormous amount of knowledge about therapeutic communities but from what I understand you to have said today, the therapeutic community is kind of opposite to the hospital, is that correct? If this is so, then how does it work that you have a therapeutic community that is actually called a hospital?  For example the Henderson Hospital. I don’t understand this.

 

Rex: Therapeutic Communities actually started up in hospitals. As they grew, it was Maxwell-Jones who was responsible for much of the early work, whole hospitals were actually transformed into therapeutic communities. All the wards and all the systems adhered to therapeutic principles. Unfortunately, that has all been phased out now. Bob was talking of his early experience in hospital psychiatry. The whole system was geared to being therapeutic. That’s something which has, sadly, disappeared in the last twenty or thirty years. Now the therapeutic communities exist as stand alone units, that are set up in particular places. The Henderson is an example of this. It isn’t a hospital and it isn’t a psychiatric hospital. They have 29 places and its linked to the hospital, but it works on different principles, they have a different way of working. For example, the people don’t have any medication in there. Everything is done in groups, there is no individual therapy. People stay for up to a year. Does that answer your question? They are not opposite to hospitals, they are very specialised hospitals. Formerly, we were much more optimistic! Whole hospitals would be therapeutic! Everything now has to be defined, one has to say why and what you are doing.

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Bob: I’d like to reminisce a little here. When I went to Claybury, we used to have ward meetings and all the staff, everyone, including the cleaners would be sitting in the ward, the doctors and people would be sitting around, and this was the way it was meant to operate right throughout the ward structure in Claybury, which was a large Victorian “bin” into which people were “dumped”  In those days, unlike today, the established view was that there should be a community in which the ethos was therapeutic. Efforts were made to implement that ethos. There were regular ward meetings. There were groups all over the place. The idea was that any contact that the “customer” had would be part of the therapeutic contract.  I’d just completed my orthodox training and it was mind blowing because we were discussing emotions,. Something we had never  discussed before during my medical training. It was a positive educative process which I can now bolster with a set of philosophical statements: it’s actually a very democratic situation. Nowadays, you go into a hospital set up and you get the “bosses”, the people in the white coats, the hierarchy and, above them, the “big chief”: a situation which is actually anti democratic.

One thing I have learned is that human rights are therapeutic.

We did a study of therapeutic communities on our way back from the US in 1965 and we visited one in Sydney, Australia where they had patient admission committees and patient discharge committees. This was undoing the noxious effects of institutionalisation, trying to devolve power down to the “customers” of the institution! The ideals are correct and it’s therapeutic!

 

Elie: There are some therapeutic communities in prison settings as well. It’s not just one thing or the other. There’s Grendon, which is for sex offenders. It’s a therapeutic community set up within the prison service to look at sex offending.

 

Bob: The problem is that people like bureaucracies. They like structure and they then move to regulation, rigidity and so on. The human mind is fluid. What is needed is something that is supportive and, at the same time flexible.

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Question: Two questions. The first, something that has always puzzled me about the special hospitals. Why are they called hospitals and the staff called nurses? The second question concerns the prisons and why is there such a very high incidence of mental ill health in the prison population? I was at a student presentation recently where a student group had estimated that 90% of prisoners suffer from some mental health problem. The Chief Inspector of Prisons estimates it to be about a third of all prisoners but, clearly, whatever the exact figure is, it is very high. One of our students who had been in prison reported to us that if you do get ill in hospital, you do your utmost to keep yourself out of the hands of the doctors. The Prison health service has a very bad reputation. My question is about the contradictions in the language that we use and, more particularly, the absence of adequate treatment.

 

Carole: As far as the three secure hospitals in England are concerned, (we won’t include Carstairs because it is in Scotland and it has a different register attached to it): in England we have Broadmoor,  Rampton and  Ashworth, which were all, historically, (and it’s all an accident of history) spin-offs from the asylums of the 19th century. The staff working in the larger asylums  tended to come from the prison service because the people there were seen to require a custodial as opposed to a caring regime. For instance, when Bedlam became overcrowded, Broadmoor was built in Berkshire to relieve the situation and, when the patients were transferred, they came along with their warders and wardresses who were prison, custodial staff. This is what I mean by the historical accident of the nursing staff at Broadmoor Hospital being made up largely of members of the Prison Staff Association, the trade union of prison staff. That situation is actually changing now. It has been a long standing problem. In addition to this, the nursing staff have a sort of ‘split personality’ because some of them wear prison officers uniforms and some of them wear nurses uniforms. Only about 60% of them have had any nursing training. There is something of a dilemma about their role and about society’s expectations of them. One day last week, one of the broadsheet newspapers carried a report about the prisoners in Broadmoor. That kind of remark is the one thing that is guaranteed to get me on the ‘phone to them; it’s commonplace, but it’s based on ignorance. Broadmoor is a hospital and the people in Broadmoor are patients. They are quite separate from the people in the prison system. The prison service is quite different.  I would just like to say, going on from the last question, that Broadmoor and Harbury have both attempted to set up therapeutic communities. In both cases, they have failed because the care staff were also the custodians. We found that patients were unable to establish therapeutic relationships with the people holding the keys. It broke down on both cases.

 

Bob: The harder and the harsher the traumas and sufferings of the individual, the harder and the harsher the traumatic treatment that they then receive! It’s something I learned afresh at Parkhurst. The more dangerous, the more damaging, the more horrendous the crimes and threats of crimes that I hear, to how damaged, distorted and tortured the childhood experience of the people perpetrating or making them were.

Children are impressionable. It’s axiomatic. You can’t sexually abuse someone if you don’t know how to do it. You have to be taught to be a sexual abuser. Freud said that in 1896. It’s one of the few things he said that I agree with: he documented it and he actually coined a phrase, he called it pseudo hereditary: it’s passed on in the family. The boys are sexually abused and they abuse their younger sisters. If you want to know why something has happened, you look at the antecedents. Where does this violence come from? Well, actually my father did this. Every one of the hundred individuals, sixty murderers and six serial killers, that I treated and got to know in Parkhurst, invariably, had a dire childhood!  It doesn’t come out of the blue! What I learned there is that human beings are born loveable, sociable and non-violent! Something dreadful has to happen to prevent that. So when I approached them and said, “I expect you to be loveable, sociable and non-violent, where has it gone?” - they looked at me dazed. When I continued to say it, every week, over a long period, over months and years, they began to change. Well if Bob expects it, maybe it’s in there…It’s education. You need to have this expectation. That’s why this sort of meeting is so important!

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Elie: With this question you are hitting on the quirkiness of psychiatric diagnosis, the Mental Health Act, where people end up. Dangerous personality disordered patients in Scotland don’t end up in hospitals, they end up in prisons because it’s not part of the Mental Health Act legislation. In England and Wales they do. Or some of them do. The whole thing is quite messy to be frank, depending upon who is diagnosing what, the whole thing about whether Personality Disorders, so called, are diagnosable at all and, if so, who’s going to treat them? There’s a battle going on at the moment between the prison service and the special hospitals about who is going to corner all the new funding for all this. The whole thing is a mess in terms of where people end up and the services they get.

 

Carole: Allow me to clarify this word ‘special’. It means special in terms of special security measures, not in terms of the quality of the service delivered.

 

 

Question: I also believe, and my experience seems to bear it out the fact that, if somebody wants to change, they can. Would you agree that unless somebody wants to make a change in their life, then the change won’t come! What happens to the person who doesn’t want to change? Does one reach the point where one decides to stop trying to make a difference?

 

Elie: I have come across people who were intransigent and weren’t ready to change at that point. I have known people who have been in security systems for a long, long time before they were ready to admit that they had committed the serious crime they had been sentenced for having committed. To some extent, that’s attributable to the legal process, because they are getting advice not to admit it. There's no point in admitting it. Timing is important. Sometimes I get people who are there coercively, because of reasons of child protection, for example. That’s not always a bad thing - motivation doesn’t always have to come from inside. Some people can be persuaded. I have certainly worked with people who could not be persuaded over the time available – maybe it was the wrong time, maybe I was the wrong person. I have come across people who were so damaged that I wasn’t going to be able to help them at that point. Whether they were ever going to be able to change, I can’t answer that really.

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Carole: When the potential for change is there, it needs to be nourished, given the right kind of environment and the right type of routines and people. That’s the overriding concern with the needs of the women in the secure and maximum special secure units. The majority of the women don’t require  physical security of any kind. We are looking for small, women only units because, generally, that’s the kind of environment in which they are going to be enabled to effect change in their own lives; something that is just not going to happen in the places where they are currently incarcerated. One very sad feature of the current situation, the difficulty of moving the women out of the ‘‘specials’’, arises because there is a shortage of appropriate places to send them to outside. They do reach a peak of ‘wildness’ (like anybody subjected to those kinds of stresses) and you need to do a great deal of work usually among their friends, or on their own, in the special hospitals. Then they are ready to be released, they are ready to start leading some kind of life in the community. But there’s nowhere for them to go! Understandably, if you imprison anyone for no reason, they experience a decline, they lose the advantage of the progress that they have made and you are back to the situation you had to begin with! I think it’s a question of timing, conditions and absolutely the right support. The women know what they need! They know what they need to recover! When they are listened to, then we shall see some change.

 

Nada:  I remember when I was five years old, I ran away from home. My mum couldn’t find me. I don’t remember how I was found but, in fact, my mum told me. I would have killed myself,  I was so scared of my dad, so scared of facing him. If I had  had somebody to help me then, a support system, then I would not be sitting here today. If I had had the right people. It’s like today, people suffer  within their own skin. We need to be given the opportunity to be helped.

 

Bob:  This is a very critical question. Are there some people who can’t change or who won’t change? The word won’t is critical. My position is very clear: Everybody wishes to be loveable, sociable and non-violent. Whether they can be reached or not can be, as Elie said, problematic. Mostly, in my view, it’s my fault because I am not selling it properly. I require their consent. They are entitled to withdraw their consent. If they withdraw their consent then it must be that the product on display is not sufficient for them to buy. I am asking them, as with Tony on the clip, I am asking them to swap a life support system that they have used for forty, for sixty years, for howsoever many years, to swap that life support system, or to drop it, throw it away and to swim. Now, it has to be under circumstances in which that proposition makes sense to them. It makes sense to me, but if it doesn’t make sense to them they are not going to jump. I ask them to jump, but if they refuse, there’s no problem. By way of illustration, let me tell you a lovely story. When I was working in Parkhurst, there was one particularly notorious man, who used to cut people up with scissors, in prison. I would be sitting at my table each morning, taking appointments and he would walk around me. I’d say “Good Morning” and he’d say, “Good Morning” and he did that for months, “Are you coming to see me?” I’d ask. – “Fat chance, fat chance”, he would reply. He was watching, he was watching people make appointments to see me and not turn up. He was finding out. It was critically important. There was no push on him at all! He wanted to make absolutely sure that he was coming by consent. His consent. So, if you find somebody who says that he doesn’t want to change, it may be the case. One chap took two years, to change. It’s clear from the start. It’s the  old story.  If you are brought up in a concentration camp the only people with any power are the guards. It’s the same in any prison setting, or in the hospital setting, medical setting. You are not going to trust the people with power unless you have the absolute assurance that it’s not going to do you more damage when you allow yourself to be persuaded to expose your innermost secrets to them; to people who are powerful and who will then destroy you! That is precisely the challenge to any therapist, particularly to psychiatrists in prison. Psychiatrists can be very dangerous people! They also have lots of power. You cannot avail yourself of that power unless the person trusts the individual concerned. This is where the trust comes in.

We’ve heard Karl say that he knew when they were coming (the therapists) and he couldn’t stop himself and he put the concrete walls in place and they would get nowhere with him. Yet, he gives them the clue! Now why does he do that? He gives them the secret passage. He gives them the code to break through the high security fences built around the terror. Why does he do that? Because he trusts them, he wants help!

Despite the best endeavours of the prison service he has decided that this help is going to be useful!  So he tells them what to do! The magic word is that they should come on to the wing when he least expects it. Did you hear what he said? “They came in unexpectedly”,  they sit him down and he breaks down he falls to the floor, literally! Nose bleeds, everything falls to pieces. He has actually given them permission to get in to where the real hurt was. Astonishing!

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Question: What do you think of the notion that history repeats itself?

 

Carole: Psychiatrists love it! According to them, abuse is cyclical and inevitable. The abused go on to become the abusers. It’s absolutely not the case! Except in only the minority of situations, as Elie said this morning. Who and why and how it happens he doesn’t know and I don’t know. By and large, the majority, and I’m thinking in terms of the women that we work with in Broadmoor, have excellent parenting skills and are excellent mothers. It is a problem for them because they tend to be approached by social services whilst they are pregnant and their unborn children are put on the “at risk” register, but they do extremely well.

 

Question: I was pleased to see Tony (in the video) laughing because I believe that one of the good things about helping people is getting them to laugh. It does help. It’s a good point and I wanted particularly to bring that out. I spend a lot of time on the internet, talking to people cutting themselves. Quite a number of them are young people who are frightened of letting their parents know that there is something wrong with them. They know that they need help but they won’t ask for help. They need to go and speak to someone, their GP, the Samaritans, somebody like that. I have no training but I find that people allow me to listen to them. I wonder if there is any advice the panel could give to me to help me be more effective.

 

Elie:  I think, as we have said already, if you are someone they feel safe with, they will take it up. There are lots of interesting developments, things like “Child Line” and third party agencies that people feel safe with because they are anonymous. These agencies just didn’t exist 15 or 20 years ago. It’s important to recognise that there is just as much potential for abuse within them because they are anonymous. I think that there is a whole new world of possibilities with the developing technologies, in terms of offering people a “first port of call” but that is no substitute for face to face trust. It’s an illusion on one level, but it’s a good starting point. All you can do is recognise that if that experience is good, if that experience is healing, if that experience has encouraged them to come forward and to feel safe then you would hope that they would be able to move forward from that, to seek the help they need.

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Rex:  Our community has something for this sort of thing where (we are there for six hours a day) people are there in their homes for the other eighteen hours of the day and they phone each other up if they need to and they are very supportive of one another. They are thinking about each other, they matter to each other and they know that they will be listened to if they phone for support. In fact, one of the things that comes from this document, which comes from an organisation called Borderline UK, which I think has a chat forum on the web about this sort of thing, is that these official self help groups should be established because they really know how to help each other. I don’t know what the role of these other voices are, but certainly a network of people who know and can help is really important, I think. The new technology offers us these opportunities.

 

Questioner:  May I say that I actually help out at a Yahoo group called “Depression and Self Injury”. These are genuine members of this group and they are already talking to each other. The problem is that they know they need face to face help and that’s precisely what they are scared of initiating because they are scared that their parents will get to know. They don’t want their parents to “flip”.

 

Bob:  I think, as Elie says, “they need a good hard listening to”, they do! As regards guidelines, about therapy, people will only go as far as they are ready to go. That has to be understood. Sometimes, in my therapy, I offer people only one option, one way out, but we have already agreed before hand that the option is growing up and taking responsibility. It is possible to raise things, but in a gentle fashion, as I did with Tony, about saying goodbye to his mother. It wasn’t forceful.  It’s a consensual matter. You can raise things, like taking more responsibility, more autonomy, like in five years time or in ten years time, where you are looking forward to taking more responsibility in the world. I would, however, strongly advise, in these situations, against “parenting”  because then you are taking on their problems as if you were a parent, which you are not.

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Question: You have talked about cognitive behavioural programmes in the community and I have seen some very good work done on a programme with certain individuals. My question concerns the therapeutic intervention, it’s about the relationship between the therapist and the person seeking help.  I’m interested in the fact that two of you, I think, are trained psychotherapists. My understanding of the psychotherapeutic approach is that you provide a safe environment within which you explore childhood issues. Presumably, you would hope that they would reach their own conclusions about this mystical “parent figure”  that they have been seeking. I’m wondering about that because trying to match the persons needs with what you have to offer, the model or framework they would use to understand themselves, I wonder whether a lot of people would be put off by that, because it is what they should know, it’s about consent, but given the sensitive nature I wonder if that could put people off. The consensual approach may be more effective with some people.

 

Bob:  I think that you are right. I am proactive. I am actually an educationalist. If you are teaching somebody to swim, some people say that you have to get into the water. I can swim. That’s not the issue. The question is, can they swim? It’s like all education, you have to get down to the individual. The reason I showed the clip of Tony is because the changeover was rapid. The probation officer had his doubts, but Tony was quite clear. He knew what had happened. It’s a pattern, it’s a blueprint, it’s something that I work to and I do it on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.  Some people, as you say, leave it and that’s their choice. I know and I can accept when they do that because the feedback comes, as it did with Tony, with the smile that crosses their face! He was clearly delighted to see that there is a way through.  What I am aiming to do is to offer them a clarity that they have never had, an option that they have never had before. Nobody has gone in there before and said, “Look, you are 41 years old, you don’t need mothering anymore!” Nobody said that. It’s not in the culture. It’s countercultural. You get into all sorts of difficulties with, you know, she’s always been your mother, you’ve always done so and so, you get a lot of emotional difficulties like that. Now, I don’t go into that side of things, what I go into is “Can you survive if your mother disapproves?” His mother disapproves so much that (as far as he was concerned) she gave him away at the age of three months! He has lived with that burden ever since.

 

Now there is a different life that he can have, without that burden! I believe that identifying that burden in him, in that amount of time (because I know people can take years to work through a similar thing) the key fact is that we have not even begun until we are looking at the irrational structures, at the irrational emotions affecting that particular individual! The opening period, whether it’s one session, three sessions or nine months, is needed to establish the boundaries. That is to say, “I am offering you these things and you can take them or you can leave them” and it’s the leaving them that has to be established. Once you’ve got that, then you can suggest things. Not - “It’s time you grew up!” or - “It’s time you grew up emotionally!”, (pointing his finger) - “Grow up!”, which is the parental thing, no, rather, it’s an authoritative thing. I call myself an emotional “plumber”. You want your central heating fixing? - Get a new boiler! You don’t want to get a new boiler? Well, don’t get a new boiler!  I have to have that detachment, which a parent doesn’t have. You don’t want the new boiler? Well, that’s your decision!

 

You have to devolve down, at that level as well. It probably comes across as more directive than it actually is. The skill that I have developed is how far to push. If you push too far they will explode. They will get angry. That shows that I have pushed them into opening the box before they have got the confidence. I am confident that I have to be proactive in suggesting that they open up the box, suggesting that there is a box there, suggesting that there is a parental figment. This is something that I have set up in contradistinction to the training I had! The training I had that taught me to sit there and to wait. In fact, in one dreadful presentation, the therapist said “Well, he’s been coming for six months! It’s about time he said something!” and I thought to myself, just a minute!

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Rex:  The whole point of therapy is ‘mucking in’ getting on with life, looking at it all and seeing how you get on with it. One of the things that you said was talking about past experiences, that is only a very small part of it really. Most of what I was saying in that ‘five stage model’ was to do with getting people into a position where they feel safe. That’s more than half the task! They feel they belong and it is a safe space to do that. That’s the job of therapy. That’s the preverbal stuff, that’s children before they have learned to put things into words, that’s the primitive, raw emotional stuff from really early on. I think this comes back to consent actually, asking people for their consent is where the whole thing starts. We don’t ask people, “Do you want to come into the programme?” We give them a drop-in, introductory programme for up to a year, where they can come in and they can talk to people who are already in it, they can see if it is for them, think about it, discuss it with us and so on. It is only when they have been through it, have dipped their toes, when they decide if they want to attach in that way. I think that is a good way of obtaining real, informed consent rather than making them sign a form and tick a box. Consent is so important.

 

Matthew:   ……in the end for me it was fantastic having Bob turn the switches on which is how I saw it at the time, and that’s one of the main things – it’s daring and I think a lot of the psychiatric profession, from the patient’s point of view, I think they have got to be a bit more daring just to say things that touch on a “raw nerve”, so to speak. It’s very common with certain so called criminals who say “You talk about my mother and I’ll and I’ll ****** do you!” and we talk about everything except his mother and that becomes a sensitive area and it’s very daring to say, ”Look, your mother is part of the problem”. It’s a very difficult thing to go into and I think a lot of therapists are cowardly in that way. Now this is not a criticism it’s just that one of the things about meeting Bob was that he dared to touch those sensitive areas, which is fantastic.

 

Carole:   Let me emphasise again how important it is for you, the survivor, to become part of the programme planning. I am speaking personally. Unless I agree to engage with the therapeutic  facilities that are on offer there is nothing else. There is no alternative!  I am not a “user” because there is no “service” for me to use! I am a survivor of the existing “services”. I think it would be – I know there isn’t time today – useful to look at other forms of therapy – more holistic approaches to care - working with survival groups, working with music, working with dance, working in all kinds of other creative areas that we haven’t had time to talk about today. It’s important to recognise that there are approaches that don’t necessarily require psychotherapeutic input.

 

Elie:  I’d like to say something here since cognitive behavioural approaches have been mentioned. Firstly, There are shelves full of literature saying that the most important thing in any therapeutic intervention is the quality of the relationship. Regardless of what people think they are doing, I think that it is the relationship that is the most important thing. Secondly, I think, in it’s pure simplistic form, cognitive behaviourism doesn’t actually have much to say about people’s emotions. Just consider the title: it’s about how people think and how people behave. It doesn’t have much to say about people’s emotions. Whether people practise it in that pure way or not is another matter. Thirdly, I’d like to say that most people who do cognitive behavioural therapy are not cognitive behavioural therapists! It’s a form of therapy that has been disseminated and handed down willy nilly to every single  mental health care professional under the sun. They are practising a sort of bastardised version of cognitive behavioural therapy that is very simplistic and can be very damaging! That’s my reason for having reservations about that.

 

I am proactive. I am probably not as proactive as Bob. I do believe in telling it as-it-is and laying it on the line quickly. I usually work over three or four sessions and arrive quite quickly at my assessment of what’s going on and whether the person wants to opt in, then and there and, if not, for them to come back at another time. I think timing is really very important. When it’s right for people, when the timing is right, something is possible. I’ve had the experience where I have been trying to work with a person for months and months and  got nowhere. I’ve said, “Look, let’s leave it now, but you come back when you are ready, when you think you are ready or when things in your life are sorted” and I have had people come back two, three, four years later and the work gets done in such a short period of time because it’s the right time for them and because they are opting in! Consent is absolutely crucial. The skills we can bring are about making it safe. Creating the space that is safe. If it’s safe, people will opt in. If it isn’t safe for them then they won’t. That’s as simple as I can put it.

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Rex:  Just one thing that you mentioned, Carole, about “service users” being involved in planning, one of the things we have set up since the meeting of the focus groups at the Department of Health is, for anyone interested in continuing  that kind of work with us, we have set up a pool of people. I have the forms with me  and if any ‘service users’ are interested in joining that pool of people, please take one. We’ll contact you as and when an event comes up, you can come along and be part of the teaching pool. There are one or two a month at the moment. There is an explanation and an address to write to us. You’ll be very welcome, we’ll keep your details safe and we’ll contact you from time to time and you will have a choice about which, if any of the things you would like to be involved in.

 

Question:  Is it ever too late to do this kind of work?

 

Bob:  It’s actually soul to soul contact, that’s what we are talking about. I don’t want to be too theological in the matter but it’s actually to do with that. Where is your heart in the matter? Where is your soul in the matter? If you are actually concerned that the person in front of you is someone who you are trying to relate to and you ar trying to draw out – the sufferings are writ large, the burdens and the yearning and the dragging down are clear to see! As I have already said, the most exciting thing for me was to discover that the destructive emotions were always coming from a long time ago.

 

(Questioner interrupts):  One of the things I do want to know is, I’ve noticed that other words than the word “patient” have been used. The use of the word “patient” could imply an imbalance of power. You have used the word yourself once or twice today. (Laughter)

 

Bob:  I try not to use the word “patient” and if I have today it has been unintentional (more laughter).

 

Nada:   I was a “patient” in the Charing Cross Hospital and I was referred to Dr Johnson by my own doctor and I am glad that he did.

 

Bob:  It can vary quite a lot and it depends how efficient and how confident I am, the more confident the quicker. I met Tony for the first time. He’d actually done a little bit of work with what he called a “Listener” at Durham Prison. Tony blamed the system. He said that he had a self destruct button. It can be very brief or it can be very long. It depends. The cleverer the people are, the brighter, the quicker, they run rings round me. I say “Just a minute! I’m trying to catch up, to help you, this is actually an infantile emotion”.

 

The other thing that I should add is the group situation, if you get a good group context going. In my first six months of psychiatric training, it was totally group orientated and we sat in on a group. I learned a lot by watching other doctors, the superintendent was a very charismatic man, by watching how other doctors reacted to what was going on and then how I reacted! That was very interesting.

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Question:  There have been a number of times today when I have found that what you were saying reflected my thought but it seemed as if my reflections couldn’t be voiced. I want to offer, first of all, simply, some words in the context of what you have just been talking about, that is, group participation. I want to look at the words, Truth, Insight, Recognition, Change, because we have talked about change but we haven’t looked really at how we bring about change. What I want to address today is how do you bring about change in a conference? What do you take away from the conference which changes your emotional understanding?

 

Now, I will talk about three conferences that I attended. The first was a conference on “Shame”. I was a new therapist much in awe of the London Psychoanalysts that were talking. There was one question which got through to me in that entire conference! That question was “Where is the place of pain in what we have been talking about?”  The psychoanalysts were talking about Nazi Germany, that was where shame could be located. I came out of that conference and found people sleeping on the streets of London and begging. Somebody asks me for money and I refused it. There was my shame and there was their shame and there was my deep pain, the feeling that I had to refuse. That was the first lesson.

 

The second conference which I went to two weeks ago was a conference on Trauma and I am now a Trauma specialist perhaps because I care about pain. I heard four people, four people, talking about eight clinical cases of Trauma. In the morning I could listen and in the afternoon these two people talking had dead voices. The Trauma in the delivery was unbearable. I now think, as a therapist, the trauma in the room was unbearable. The people in the morning had touched so much that the people in the afternoon couldn’t bear to listen and those talking couldn’t bear to speak. My colleague and I said to each other as we came away from this conference that they didn’t reach the trauma we work with, we couldn’t talk about our experience of trauma: severe trauma that can scarcely be voiced, the torture of refugees.

 

Today I hear a repetition of two weeks ago. I hear a number of people talking cogently about their work and I have given them a lot of “good listening to” but I haven’t sensed that we have truly participated because, although it has been acknowledge that we are all in this together, there hasn’t been the opportunity for people to get together in a reflective space to say “This is my pain, this is me. These people are another one of myself”

 

Bob:  Thank you very much.

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Question:  That was a good point. I really enjoyed what that lady said.  I come from a background of a lot of physical, mental and sexual abuse and I’ve been very hard on myself to get to this point. My question is what is the difference between conventional and normal therapy? I’ve done a lot of work on myself and I’ve found a lot of help in touching on the core of trauma, going right to the depths of these feelings and I felt great relief going though that - in the more conventional psychotherapy, leading on into the past. The position I am facing at the moment is the realisation that there is a frozen being (I read it on the cover of your book) where you come to the point of realising that you have been a frozen being to enable you to get through this trauma – the emotions arise, your feelings come back –it’s the therapeutic side that I am interested in – and I am wondering if your kind of therapy can help me – the emotions and feelings, everything that has been frozen in time and is thawed out and the emotions are arising – if your mode of therapy can help me.

 

Bob:   The model is very simple. The child is growing up, something dreadful happens, they get frozen, they put it in the box at that particular age, they get frozen at that particular age. Now, I am not claiming that the only way to do it is the way I do it. Manifestly, people can derive benefit from a whole series of therapies. The trouble with my experience of other people doing therapy and trauma work is that the risk of re-traumatisation is very high. I shall give you an example. The Behaviour Therapists, they go in and they say, “What happened? Let’s have all the details” … but they haven’t got a plan, they haven’t got a blueprint for getting rid of it. The reason I showed the clip of Tony is that, clearly, he has got this yearning in his head and so forth and he was able to begin to cut the links and let that slide into the past where it should be because it wasn’t in the past as far as he was concerned when I first saw him and that’s the deal. The problem with trauma and the human mind is that trauma is extremely destabilising. It actually stops the mind thinking clearly about a particular item.

You may have seen what was happening with Tony I said “What happened? What did I say?” and this happens all the time throughout the therapy. I do that all the time. You come back next week and you say, “I’m feeling better now” and I ask you “Really? Why? - What  happened? - What was the difference?” You are working all the time. Even if you have a rigid structure like with the cognitive behavioural therapy and you have got some support from the staff and from the customer then you can start to let your own personality come out, you can begin treatment, you can begin to move in a different way. Any two individuals are going to be unique: the therapist and the customer. It’s a dipole. It’s a dyad. It’s always going to be unique because you have two unique personalities. You have to be flexible, you have to move in that way. Until you can actually get enough support to look at the terror and say “I can see the terror, I am walking through it and it is over” it remains frozen, you say “I’m not going back there again!” and you back off. That’s why it’s frozen, that’s why it never moves, in general terms. You come up to it and you say you can’t do that again. The mind backs off from it. As a child that’s all you can do.  But if the customer is backing off you can’t say that the abuse has stopped. You haven’t actually worked it through. The contexts of working it through are legion. I have no monopoly on that at all. What I would say is that you wait until you get enough support to confront the terror. You say “Yes! That was appalling! What you did to me!” I often did this with women who had been sexually abused. I say “Sit your abuser over there and tell him what he did was wrong and that you are not going to let him do it to you again!” “O no, I couldn’t do that!” they reply. I say “I beg your pardon, it’s an empty room, it’s an empty chair! Why couldn’t you do it?” We discuss it. As the customer’s confidence develops, “I was very angry with you for doing it!” These words are blocked, they can’t say it, they can’t articulate the words! They say the words to me, we discuss what they should say, they turn to the empty chair and they can’t say the words. We work on that. It’s a learning process. It’s like learning to talk, it’s like learning to think. Where they have taught themselves not to think. It’s a complex process on one level. It’s also a very simple process on another if they have the support.

Claire:  I was brought to see Bob for about eighteen months. I saw the difference working with Bob. I had been in the mental health services for about twenty seven years off and on since I first went in. It was an awful long time and I found that it was a retraumatising experience talking about the abuse. All it did was centre in on the abuse. It didn’t give me any view of a life different from that. Working with Bob, as Nada said, goes back to giving you the responsibility. Working with Bob gave me that. He encouraged me to take responsibility for myself.  That’s all I want to say really.

Elie:  May I ask. You feel stuck. Is that what you are saying?

Questioner:  I feel that the block is frozen and I feel my emotions are coming up. I am realising that I have got so little trust. I have had so much abuse that I can’t do anything right. That I’m actually stuck.

Elie:  I do spend a lot of time talking to people. The preparation may take a long time. For me, the healing takes place in actually speaking about what happened. Going through. Speaking about it in detail. You have got to feel safe before this is possible. Before you can open up this box. You cannot force that! You just cannot force that. It will happen at it’s right time. Some things can happen in terms of negotiation with the therapist, you can discuss how to make it safe enough for it to happen. There is an element in which you cannot rush that, it will happen in it’s own time. The best way to encourage that to happen is to talk about what it is you are there to talk about, if you know what I mean. You have to just let that happen in it’s own time. But I am also very proactive.  I don’t believe in just sitting there. I think it’s a myth about counsellors just sitting there and listening. It’s not about that. It’s about proactive, interactive listening. The counsellor is there to have an opinion. You are there to make comments. Having that opinion and making those comments are not the same as imposing that opinion, those comments.  People appreciate it most when you are straight with them, when you are honest with them and when you are genuine with them. Just stick with it is what I say.

Bob:  I think we are running out of time. Nice conference. What do you think?

Conference:  Agreement.

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Bob: I know people have trains to catch.

Elie:  It would have been better had we had a little time after each speaker for questions and answers. I like that kind of interaction when I am speaking.

Bob:  Noted. Any other comments?

Questioner:  Whilst we are discussing a wish list: we haven’t discussed the child today. That’s another subject and another conference.

Questioner:  A conference for the families of people diagnosed with PD.

Bob: The JNF was set up to educate the public and the profession on this issue of Personality Disorder and in particular to give out a message of optimism. The sort of comments and the sort of support we have got here today indicates that this is not a dead issue. It is a live issue! Thank you again for all your support.

 

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Applause.

 

Appendix

 

 

An Inmate speaks about Personality Disorder.

Karl:  I’ve been in prison for twelve years now and I’m still in prison. I came down from Edinburgh prison this morning with a few particular things that I’d like to share with you about personality disorder and how it was cured.

As I grew up, as a child, I lived with fear. I lived with fear all my life. Mindless fear and terror. I didn’t know why. When I was 21, I started to get into serious trouble, a lot of violence, I ended up in prison. While I was in prison, I started to get nightmares that I’d never had before and I started going back into my childhood. I could always remember my childhood up to the ages of about eight and then about ten.  Then there was a two year gap. I never thought anything of it. As these nightmares started, I was going back into that two years.

I found out that as I was going home from school one day, as I was crossing this waste ground, a guy grabbed me and pulled me into some bushes. He had a large knife, a large steak knife, and he wanted to sexually abuse me. He had this knife and he threatened to kill me. All these memories came back. Right in the middle of what was going on, I thought I was going to die. I had this huge weight on top of me, this knife at my throat, and my mind shut off, just cut out.  I can remember everything up to that point, the smells, the sounds, but I didn’t want to deal with it while I was lying in this cell. It frightened me too much. I pushed it away.

I got out of prison, went back to the same lifestyle: violence, control, terror, living with this terror, and my mind pushed it so far away that I didn’t remember it anymore. This went on for many years, a lifestyle of dysfunctional behaviour, addictions, extreme violence of all different kinds. The trigger for the violence would be when I would lose control, the emotional control. The terror would come in. I created the violence as a tool to kill the terror. Violence and anger for me were tools that I used, they were the best friends that I had. They kept me safe from the terror. 

So I ended up in prison in 1990, for another violent offence and I was given counselling. It didn’t work. Nobody could get near. I’d lived with this terror for so long that if anybody got near I was violent. I couldn’t stop it. I didn’t know how to stop it. My natural reaction was violent, because I felt comfortable, I felt safe. I was put into a therapy group and that was the catalyst that caused me to lose control. I could cope with what I had done because I had anaesthetised myself to it and pushed it away but I could not cope with what other people had done and listening to what they had done. I found that in listening to what other people had done I would feel vulnerable and get back into being a child and identify with the victim they were talking about and identify with the woman they were talking about or the man they were talking about. The terror started to come out in the group. The violence started. I hated the anger and the violence and I was frightening everybody in the group! I didn’t see any of this! It was such a part of my life! However, the group leaders saw this and they realised that it was a problem in my childhood. I still, at this time, I didn’t realise what was going on, it so controlled my mind. My terror would not let me see what was wrong.

So they took me for one to one counselling in conjunction with the group therapy. But it still wasn’t working.

They said to me, “Well, why isn’t this working?”

I said, “Well I know that you’re coming. You make an appointment with me and tell me when you’re coming and I can’t stop my mind preparing for you coming. I can’t stop it. It’s impossible. So when you come for your appointment, I’m frozen and you’re not getting near!” So I said, “Don’t tell me when you’re coming. Just come into the Hall and immediately go into the session.”

So that’s what they did and the first session I just collapsed. I ended up on the floor, just sobbing on the floor, I went immediately back in to that period in my childhood where the abuse was happening. That was the start of a progressive understanding because I had to let the terror go. I realised that, when my mind had shut down in the middle of my abuse, I thought I was going to die. The terror was caused by that trauma. When I was losing control, I was waking up in the middle of that abuse and all my emotions were telling me that I was going to die and that this person was on top of me. Now that wasn’t the case but the trauma was telling me that! So, I had to release that trauma and it took two years and a lot of hard work and most of that was done behind a steel door because I could not work with anyone in dealing with that trauma at the beginning. It was so severe. I would just get violent.

 

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I found that the more I tried to deal with it, the more physically ill I would become. I would get severe pains in my head that would literally drop me to the floor. I would vomit all over the floor, blood would come out of my nose. I ended up in hospital and this would go on for a long time. It was only when I slowly released the terror that I learned to interact emotionally with other people. I found that the one to one counselling dealt with the damaged child, which allowed me to go into the group therapy and emotionally educate the adult. It had to be that way. I could not go and deal with the adult and work back the way because the child was creating the aggression and the terror that was keeping everyone away.

I went right through the prison system and I was being assessed for release and that was when my problems really started. I’d been working with people for ten years.  I had an excellent record of work and therapy. My security review said: this man is now little risk to the public. However I came up against psychiatrists and psychologists who depended on the Hare Psychopathy Checklist. Despite the fact that I had an excellent record, and was assessed positively for release – they contradicted my whole record using the Psychopathy Checklist. They said “This man is in the top 5% most dangerous prisoners in Scotland and he should never be released.”

But I had reports from everyone else, including psychologists and psychiatrists, that did not have any dependence on Hare or other absolute tools. It just didn’t add up. So I’d heard of Bob and I asked Bob to come and assess me and he came. The Parole Board read his report and said they accepted it.

One thought that I’d like to leave you with is this: it took me forty years to come home from school.  The people who brought me home were not highly trained professionals, psychologists, psychiatrists, psychosexual counsellors or whatever, they were just two ordinary people: a basic grade prison officer and a middle aged social worker, who saw what was being triggered off in me and decided to do something about it. That was not normal practice in the type of therapy that was offered at that time. It didn’t deal with childhood issues that surfaced. The normal practice just dealt with a set programme. It’s now becoming more a part of the programme that, if something surfaces, it needs to come out: you need one to one counselling in addition to group therapy. 

It’s completely gone now, totally gone!

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That’s the part that I wanted to impress upon you today, that nothing in the prison system worked. You could have locked me up, you could have done anything you wanted to, it wouldn’t have worked. The more you’d have tried to use force and coercive control methods the more I would fight you because I didn’t know how to do anything else. All I knew was how to get angry because that made me safe and it kept me comfortable. I will leave you with that one thought, that it wasn’t highly skilled people that helped me, it was just two ordinary people who saw a wounded kid. Thank you.

 

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